Peter Jackson vs jack Johnson

Where is the primary source that shows Fitzsimmons rated Jackson above Johnson?
Corbett hated Johnson's guts, so how could he be expected to be objective when judging his abilities?
I've come up with an appraisal of Jackson's opponents .

You glanced at Box Rec and posted this.
"good wins over pasty Cardiff, George Godfrey, peter maher and Denver ed smith"
I showed Cardiff was 36 years old and retired in that fight with an injured arm.
I showed that Godfrey had a freak accident falling out of the ring and hitting his head on the concrete floor rendering him unable to continue.
I showed that Maher was a 20 years old kid who had never fought anyone who had fought before and that the year previously he had fought for the Irish Middleweight title!
I showed that Denver Ed Smith never beat anyone of real note!
Perhaps you are confusing him with Denver Ed Martin?
These are not excuses ,they are cold facts!
Q . Is there anything I have written that is not true?
A.Yes?
A.No?


Who are these "many people?" Did they also see Johnson?
Now I'm waiting for these sources/many people ,you've mentioned 4 times! Or,is it," just you"?lol

 

If Jackson couldn't beat James "Cheeks" Corbett over a 60 rd bout
then Johnson would have no problem with him.

 

"Cheeks Corbett"lol.

 

Check 'em out...

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I cant agree with this. At this time, being the Australian champion was on par with being a modern Belt holder. In fact, being an Aussie Champion may have been better than being a US champion or British champion at the time. As a general rule, around this time, the Aussie fighters often matched or even surpassed their overseas compatriots, as proved when Jackson eventually fought and beat the best fighters in the world.

Many people who saw Jackson rated him the greatest fighter ever and he was a legitimate World Championship level fighter. Personally, i give him a great Chance to beat Harry Wills, Sam Langford and many other all time great fighters. That being said, Jack Johnson is an all time great maybe the greatest ever and even now, probably the closest we get to a consensus No. 3 fighter of all time. He probably is the favourite, but Jackson is not without a decent chance and there are not many others who could say this.

 

1..
I'd like some names to these," many people".I keep hearing this vague term.
Who had they seen to compare him to is another question?
Then I will try and prove my point, by addressing the underlined.
If your statement is true there must necessarily have been some depth to the heavyweight division in Australia at the time. Now lets look at the two previous Heavyweight Champions from," Down Under".
Farnan was a LPR fighter and MQ
Bill Farnan. 24 fights 8 wins 3 losses 3 draws 10 ND's
Farnan's first 5 fights were against debutees.
His 1881 6th fight was for the Australian vacant title! Feb1881 . His opponent Charlie Richardson had a record of 3-0-1!
Farnan won,his next opponents records were as follows.
7th fight 7-0 4 Peter Newton[he crops up again]
8th 0-0-1
9th 0-0-0
10th 5-1-2* This is Charlie Richardson again
11th 5-1-3* Charlie Richardson
12th 0- 0-0
13th 7- 0-4*This is Jackson, for Farnan's 1st defence it is Sept 1884!3 years and 7 months after he won the vacant title!Jackson is stopped
14th 0-0-0
15th 3-1-0 This is Jackson and it's called a draw when Jacksons supporters invade the ring with Jackson on the verge of being ko'd
16th 7-1-4 Peter Newton again
17th 7-1-4 Peter Newton!
18th 0-1-2
19th3-0-2 this is Tom Lees and its a draw
20th3-0-2Tom Lees in Farnan's 2nd defence in 4 years! Lees wins the title in his 6th fight!May1885
21st 0-4-0.
22nd 4-2-2 Farnan challenges Lees for the title,its a draw.Apr 1886
23rd4-2-2 Farnan again challenges Lees , he loses
24th 16-2-3 Farnan takes on Frank Slavin and is stopped Oct 1887

Farnan retires, having been champion for 4 years and 3 months and defending his successfully title twice.
His opponents have a total of 126 fights between them with 60 wins.
"On a par with being a modern beltholder?"

Well Anthony Joshua is a modern belt holder with 19 fights, his opponents have a total of 670 rds between them!
Spot the difference?

To be cont'd.

 

2.Farnan's successor was Tom Lees. Here is his resume.
1884 opponents record
1st 0-0-0
2nd 2-0-1 this was Jackson, it was a ND
3rd 2-0-1Jackson. Lees lost
4th 3-0-1 Jackson ND
5th 0-0-0
6th 0-0-0
7th 0-0-0
1885
8th 0-2-1
9th7-0-1 This was Farnan.Title fight it was a draw

In his 9th fight with a record of 3 wins 2 losses and3 ND's, Lees is fighting for the title!
10th 7-0-2 Farnan again challenging him for the title.Lees wins the title .
So in his 10th fight Lees is Australian Heavyweight Champion ,his record is now 10fights. 4W- 2L- -3ND -1D!
The man he has beaten for the title has a record of 7-0-2!
11th 7-1-4 Our old friend Peter Newton
1886
12th 7-1-4 Pete again!
13th8-1-2 Farnan tries to regain the crown, its a draw.
14th 8-1-3 Farnan again! Lees wins.
15th7-1-4 Pete yet again!
16th3-3-3
17th Larry Foley Aussie Boxing legend except that he has only had 10 fights and only won 6 of them!ND
18th0-0-0
19th7-1-4 Pete's back to try his luck!ND
20th 7-1-4Pete yet again!Draw
21st4-3-1
22 nd 0-0-0
23rd 12-1-0 Wow, someone who has double figures! Its Mick Dooley!
24th 0-1-0
25th 0-0-0
26th7-1-5 Pete Newton is back in town!ND
27th 5-2-2 Jackson Title defence Jackson wins the title after 9 fights

So Lees wins the title in 1885 , after 10 fights with only 4 wins amongst them, successfully defends it twice in 1886 both times against Farnan, then loses it to Jackson in Sept of that year..
No point in following Lees further, he has 8 more fights winning 3, all against debutees loses 4 and has 1 draw.
15-11-3 His record is for 272 rounds.
His opponents have a total of 467 rds between them.
Cont'd

 

3.
That's two Australian heavyweight champions before Jackson.
Farnan & Lees. They have the following stats
Farnan24 fights for a total of 88 rds Champ from 1881-02-20 until 1885- 05-20 5 defences in 4 years against 2 challengers.
Lees Champ from 1885-05-20 until1886-09-25 3 defences against 2 men
Lees 28 fights for a total of 272 rds
Farnan 24 fights for a total of 88rds.

Now lets look at their successor, Peter Jackson.
Fight Opponents record
1882
1st0-0-0
2nd0-2-0
1884
3rd0-0-0 This is Lees
4th0-0-0
5th0-1-0 Lees again.
6th0-2-0 And again!

7th 3-0-0 This is Dooley
8th 6-0-0 This is a title fight with Farnan.
So after just 7 fight s with only 3 wins, Jackson is fighting for the Australian title against a champion whose own record is just 6 fights! Jackson is stopped.
9th7-0-0 Farnan rematch for the title Draw.
10th 6-0-3 This is Larry FoleyND
11th 1-0-1 William Miller ND
12th3-0-0 This is Dooley
13th 0-0-0
14th0-2-1
15th0-0-0
16th0-0-0
17th0-0-0
18th0-0-0
19th1-0-1
20th11-2-3 This is with Lees for the title..Jackson wins.
21st0-2-0
22nd 2-1-2 This is Steve O Donnell.ND
23rd0-0-0
1887
24th0-0-0}These 3 fights are with Pat Kiely
25th0-0-0
26th0-2-0
27th2-3-0
28th 5-4-1 D
29th2-5-0 Jim Nolan
30th0-0-1
31st3-1-4 O Donnell againND
32nd 1-2-3
33rd 2-7-0 Nolan again
34th2-1-0
35th2-7-0 Nolan again
36th 3-2-4
37th3 -2-4 O Donnell again ND
38th0-0-0
39th 14-4-3 Busy Mick Dooley!
1888
40th1-2-4 Martin Costello Jackson lost!
41st 15-4-4 Dooley
42nd Dooley yet again!
43rd1-3-4
44th15-4-6 Dooley!
45th6-0-6Larry Foley D Foley is 39 year sold but its his arena!
USA
46th 0-0-0 Nothing like being broken in gently!
47th16-2-1 This is George Godfrey for the Coloured Championship.Godfrey falls out of the ring and hits his head on the floor /hits his head against a wall,take your pick and is unable to continue.
Jackson is the Coloured Champion a title he will never defend!
1889
48th 8-1-0 This is Joe McAuliffe the LPR fighter Jackson wins.
49th 24-1-8 This is Patsy Cardiff,Cardiif sustains an arm injury and is retired.

50th 0-0-0
51st13-1-3 Tom Lees resurfaces!ND
52nd 0-0-0
53rd 1-0-0
54th13-7-3 Lees again!ND
55th 4-2-0
56th 0-1-0
57th0-4-0
58th4-3-0
59th0-0-0
60th 33-4-8 This is Jack Fallon
UK
61st 0-4-0
62nd0-0-0
63rd2-1-0
64th12-4-0
65th 5-0-0
66th0-0-0
67th0-0-0
68th0-0-0 Did anyone fight so many debutees?
69th 0-4-1
70th0-0-0!
71st0-0-0
72nd0-0-0
73rd21-0-0This is Peter Maher in Dublin W
USA 1890
74th0-0-0
75th0-0-0
76th37-5-8 Jack Fallon NC
77th0-0-0
78th0-0-0
79th28-1-2 Denver Ed Smith W
80th0-0-0
Australia
81st 20-6-2 Mick Dooley
82nd 20-6-13 Dooley
83rd40-9-17 Jack Burke
84th5-3-6 MartinCostello
85th 5-3-7 Costello
86th0-11-1
87th 5-3-8 Costello
88th1-0-0
89th0-0-0
90th 1-0-0
91st 0-0-0
92nd12-1-1Joe Goddard for Jackson's Australian Title which he has held since 1886 and not defended.Draw
93rd 20-7-15 Dooley Draw
94th 7-0-2 This is the NO Contest with JimCorbett
1892
95th 1-3-2
96th 3-5-2
97th 0-0-0
UK
98th 34-2-5Frank Slavin for the Commonwealth title.W
USA
99th12-15-5

1895
100th 2-3-1
1898 6-0-2 Jim Jeffries L
Canada
1899
101st 3- 12-0 Jim Jeffords L
101 fights, 27 against men who had not fought before, another 20 against men with losing records.
So much depth of talent in Australia at the time that Jackson got a title shot in his 8th fight having won only 3 of his previous fights .
The Champion he challenged was undefeated at that time but then he had only had 6 fights himself!
Three men held the title from Feb 1881 until Aug 1899 ,thats 18 years and 6 months, during that time the title was defended 7 times!
Jackson defended the Australian title precisely once yet he was the champion from 25th June 1886 until13th July 1901 when he died! 4 years! There was so much talent in Australia at the time that Jackson fought:
Farnanx2,Dooley x6,Costello x3.O Donnell x4 Lees x4 Five men 19 fights!
Farnan won the title with a current record of 5 fights 4 wins 1 ND all of his opponents had been debutees!
The man selected to contest the vacant title with him was Charlie Richardson ,his current record was 3-0-1!


Lees won it with 8 fights,3 wins,2 losses 3 ND's
Lees had 42 fights He fought
Farnan x4
Newtonx6
Jacksonx3 in Aus
Goddard x2
That's 15 of his 29 Aussie fights against 4 men!



Farnan had 24 fights
Richardsonx3
Jackson x2
Newton x3
Lees x4
That's 12 of his 24 fights against just 3 men!

Jackson,Fitz,Goddard,O Donnell, all left Australia to try their luck in the US, if Down Under had been a thriving hot bed of pugilisim surely they would have stayed there?

 

When do we get to see these "quotes"? Corbett rated himself above Jackson ,and Jeffries above both of them. He also said," if Choynski had been of equal size he would have been Jackson's equal and perhaps mine too!" Lets

Lets just discount records shall we, because you obviously have an intuitive insight into ring ability!

 

And I've asked what ,in the absence of film should we use as a guide to determining how good a fighter was?
I've also asked ,[twice now ,]for the primary sources of these quotes you keep repeating?