Phantom punch my ****!

The punch landed.

The issue is the reaction of Liston and then Walcott.

 

The reaction was far from appropriate.

Plus beyond that, Liston was not down for a ten count. The conduct of the ref was farcical.

Punch was solid, but no way is it a legitimate 1 round ko victory.

 

In my view, Ali cracked him...KO1.

 

Ali didn't know he had hit Liston.
He can be seen mouthing "did I hit him" to his corner.


Liston extended an arm to break the fall. An unconscious man does not do that.

Immediately post fight, Ali did not know if he had used a left or right hand to
"KO" Liston. "I'll have to look at the tape".

Ali told his corner that Liston had "laid down".

No. It was not a knock out punch. There is too much evidence to the contrary.

 

Did you like how Liston rose to one knee, then realized he had not yet been counted out, so then he "collapsed" back down to the canvas?

Or maybe it was a delayed reaction to being "cracked" so hard.

 

100% on the money.

 

I believe it was not a real knockout.
I also believe Zora Folley threw the fight, too.

 

Maybe I'm wrong...but here's the thing. Liston stepped in with that jab, and was met with a very fast right hand counter. How are people supposed to act when they are hit? You're filling in the blanks with your own very subjective opinion, and consequently not proving a thing. After the fight resumed amid the chaos of Walcott's indecision about whether the full count had been reached , Liston's movements were off, lie he was in a fog. I'll stay with what I said...you haven't convinced me other wise.

 

A very fast but very light right hand counter. When people get hit with a knockout blow, we've never seen them fall in such an anomalous way. He is consciously breaking his fall IMMEDIATELY - the fall he was taking had two stages. Have a close look and keep replaying it.

All of a sudden from being consciously aware of his surroundings AND how he was falling, he uses his right elbow with reasonable effort to help himself get into the position where he can lie flat on the floor.
He has his eyes closed as he does a roll whilst closed.
After such theatrics on the floor, making himself out to be in a bad state, he then gets up immediately and doesn't stumble whatsoever.

There was a very quick count.

Absolutely nothing of Liston's demeanour after being hit suggested he was staggering but rather was moving in a way very suspicious for someone being knocked out.

I also noticed a surprisingly shy Liston who didn't even attempt to cut off the ring properly before hand.

It's obvious Muhammad Ali didn't really believe in the punch, given the way he reacted. He lacked authentic facial expression.

I genuinely am not trying to poke holes, Ali is my favourite of all time but you have to call it when you see it, likewise was the case with Zora Folley.

 

I think there's no question that the punch landed and the KD was legitimate. What stands in suspicion was the whole sequence of events that followed Liston' knockdown.

 

It was as Ali said an anchor punch, one I also was taught and practiced thousands of times for many years, and when landed right it can be a devastating punch, Ali's against Liston wasn't, it was almost entirely an arm punch and wasn't thrown where it landed with any power. Having a head turn from an unseen punch doesn't mean it stunned or hurt and this one didn't.

 

The punch had nothing on it and was almost entirely an arm punch, Dempsey and Marciano thought it a light punch also and others seeing it at ringside thought it wouldn't have crushed a g****.

 

No worries. It's been awhile since I've watched it. My brief synopsis was this. Ali caught Liston coming in as he was advancing, as he bounced in with the right hand counter. There are many variables that can happen in a fight, and results can happen because of any number of things occurring. I will say that the result of Ali KO1 Liston is an anomaly...it is an irregular result considering all the information we had of the fighters beforehand...but in the chaos of a prize fistfight, does the data fly out the window sometimes so to speak, on who should win and how they do it? My original subjective summarization was stated above with Ali catching Liston coming in...In your subjective opinion, the blow did not look hard enough to cause the knockdown...Perhaps or perhaps not.. Ali was an incredibly fast athlete, with incredible reflexes. Ali's right hand hits Liston before he can retract the hand...it is often said by fighters that the punch that is unseen causes the most damage...and not neccesarily a hard punch. What if Liston did not see that counter right hand coming, from the speed and the angle of it's delivery? Could he have braced for it's impact?
I'll just say again the result was an anomaly...but Liston at that point was near the end of a career, and far from his best. Liston looks to be in a fog after the fight...like a KO'd fighter. I think that I'll stick with my opinion from my previous post.
I'll just say agree to disagree.