Phew...okay...here we go

He's three on my list.

 

You're shaking because you think Larry Holmes is overrated? You're too good of a guy Reznick.

I agree, sort of. I don't have him in the top 5, I think he's slightly overrated. Similarly, I don't rate Lewis so high but for different reasons. With Holmes, I don't like how he fractured the division. He didn't take the best challengers all the time, and got lazy toward the end of his run. He ranks high because of consistency, 2nd most title defenses, 48-0 and some of his later performances/wins against Holyfield and Mercer in the 90's. I'm never blown away with Larry on film the way some on. He's a great fighter that was very good very often. But when he gets compared to Ali and how people talk about how he could beat Ali I start scratching my head. Awesome jab, a good right hand and a real nice uppercut. Has some good movement, but doesn't have the reflexes or athletic ability to avoid punches like Ali. And he doesn't have the frame or legs to take a punch as well as Ali. Huge heart, though, no doubt. He tried catching punches sometimes, and although he's more technical than Ali he probably wasn't technical enough to avoid some of the punches he took. Showed great adversity, though.

It depends on what you like, really. But he's been labeled the "underrated" or "under-appreciated" guy that I think he's getting overratedly underrated. If that makes any sense.

I can understand rankings from 3-8. I have him a hair ahead of Johnson and Lewis (I know you think real highly of Johnson). He ranks currently at #6.

 

.... I have him 4th in my Top 10 HW list, written on stone, and he is staying there regardless the naysayers

 

Number 3 on my list,also. Holmes gets knocked back because he came to prominence when the 70's golden age of heavyweight boxing had just passed,and his championship reign coincided with a weak crop of fighters in comparison with the previous decade. That was n't his fault,and you can see that he was sublimely skilled. He would have fitted in the great days of 1970 - 75 very well.

 

At work at the minute - I'll check when I get home but i think i had him at about 7 or 8 on my list (i think) - I know where you're coming from Reznick - in my opinion there is no way he is anywhere near top three - he was a great boxer with great class and determination and not a respecter of reputations - but I think he is vastly overrated by many - i think my top five for instance are a different breed from the 6-10 guys - all the top 10 (infact all the top 20) i consider to be amazing fighter - they're all great but no I don't think Larry is of the same Ilk of Marciano, Dempsey, Johnson, Louis, Ali, - not even close.

 

About sums it up.

I actually have Lewis above him however. As well as Holyfield....maybe Tyson give or take.

Out of Larry's 19-20 title defenses, only something like 2 (Bey and Cooney) at best were actually ranked top 5 by the Ring at the time. And there were game contenders like Page, Witherspoon, and Weaver begging Holmes for a title shot or deserved rematch.

How Holmes ranks depends on how highly one regards quantity. Fighting the than recognized best so infrequently is incomphrensible for such a long title reign, certainly no Joe Louis. Despite his match making troubles, Wlad has actually already matched Holmes in defenses against top 5 opposition.

 

Well, if you're looking for one to convince you about Holmes, I guess I'd have you look at whom you have above him and ask yourself what THEY really did that was somehow better than what HE did.

 

i have him at 3. for a number of reasons. most of them already have been somed up. for example a lot of title defenses. larry had a great really great chin and was a suberb ring-general, but for me one of the reasons also is H2H. ofcourse it remains a guess but i believe there are very few HW fighters who beat larry holmes in a prime H2H match-up.
no marciano or dempsey or frazier or lewis or foreman for example

 

Does you list imply that all the fighters above Larry would be able to defeat him H2H? :huh

 

I beg to differ

Definitively Ali, Louis and others would be perfectly able to defeat Larry, but I have a hard time imagining Liston or Marciano (even in their primes) beating Holmes (if he is in his prime too). Just my take :dead

 

Just some critic:
1. Walcott´s footwork was at least as good if not better. Ali stole his shuffle from Walcott.
4. That´s something other fighters had as well, just look at Wlad.
5. No, that would be Shavers.
6. I think Marciano, Frazier and Tyson have something to say about this.