Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Nov 27, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    THE TIMES DISPATCH:

    "KEPT NEGRO JUMPING DURING SIX ROUND DRAW: O'BRIEN PUT UP GAME FIGHT HAD JOHNSON TIRED AND ANXIOUS: JOHNSON HOOTED BY CROWD: SLOW ON HIS FEET AND NOT IN CONDITION - RESORTED TO ROUGH TACTICS.

    "Johnson, the big coloured HW champion failed to win over Jack O'Brien the Philadelphia light-heavyweight in a six round bout. The fight was even, the consensus of opinion that the result would have been a draw were a decision permitted. O'Brien's fast footwork and superior blocking saved him from damage in several close mixes but three times he was forced to his knees by the negro's great strength and weight in the clinches.

    It was a fast fight with Johnson doing most of the leading. Johnson was slow on his feet and appeared not to be in good condition...he repeatedly rushed [O'Brien] but seldom landed cleanly. A right hand counter in the fifth cut O'Brien's eye but that was the sum total of the damage done.

    O'Brien was in and out in a flash stabbing Johnson in the face, but the blow was not heavy and had no other affect than to make the big black man grin and wave to the crowd, that cheered every time O'Brien landed and hooted the Johnson's rough work in the clinches."


    The referee spoke in praise of O'Brien's showing, and is quoted here.


    ROUND BY ROUND:

    1 - Johnson rushed O'Brien. O'Brien came back with a left to the face. Johnson rushed O'Brien to the floor. O'Brien landed a left to the face but Johnson only grinned and shoved him to his knee...O'Brien's quickness of foot stood him in good stead. The round was even.

    2 - O'Brien led to the face but was blocked and Johnson lifted him from his feet in the clinch that followed...Johnson rushed O'Brien to the ropes...Marvellos ducking saved O'Brien from damage...O'Brien caught Johnson on the face three times...Johnson waited for O'Brien to lead then took after him like a whirlwind but some quick footwork spared O'Brien from harm. O'Brien's round.

    3 - Johnson missed with the left and took a light stab in the face. O'Brien was in and out quickly but took a left to the stomach. Johnson set himself to counter but was slow and took a left to the face. Johnson went after O'Brien viciously and a left had O'Brien's mouth bleeding...Johnson ended the round looking winded...the round was which was about even ended with O'Brien's work showing cleaner.

    4 - O'Brien put a left to the face and took a left to the body...Johnson waited for O'Brien to lead...he caught O'Brien with a [glancing] right to the head and left to the body...Johnson appeared slow...if anything, the advantage was O'Brien's.

    5 - Johnson caught O'Brien with a left to the face and O'Brien went down but was up in a flash. Johnson tried to put out his right uppercut but was blocked. A right to the right eye cut O'Brien's eye badly.

    6 - They sparred cautiosly...O'Brien landed a left to the body, good and hard and Johnson only smiled.




    THE NEW YORK SUN

    "O'BRIEN OUTPOINTS JOHNSON. PHILADELPHIAN SHOWS SKILL IN SHORT BOUT. HAS THE BETTER OF THREE ROUNDS, NEGRO CHAMPION SHOWS SUPERIORITY IN ONLY ONE AND LEANS HEAVILY ON O'BRIEN. BIG CROWD AT FIGHT."

    "Jack Johnson...did not cover himself in glory here tonight...[rather] he was outpunched by a small margin in a fight that was interesting all the way. O'Brien, who was fully forty pounds lighter, did most of the leading. He landed more clean blows and showed a better knowledge of ring tactics. He made Johnson look foolish [with] clever feinting."​


    So O'Brien might have had the better of this one. He was onto a loser over a longer distance though, reading the signs, anyone disagree? Also, Boxrec has this listed as a title fight, but I can't find a mention of this anywhere. Anyone?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have seen some articles where it was argued that Johnson deserved the decision for being more agressive.

    You could probably argue it either way.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No doubt, and Boxrec quotes some papers that see it the other way. Still, great performance from O'Brien. It does sound like he was well on his way to being broken down over a longer distance though.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Would ou call it a great performence from O'Brien or a lousy performence from Jack Johnson?

    I am slightly of the latter mindset myself.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It seems Johnson was out of shape and very aware that he was in an ND contest. That said, Jack Johnson is a top 10 HW lock in his prime of life and still in the midst of his boxing prime. Let's consider a 163lb man turning up and arguably out-boxing Holmes, Ali or one of the other great boxing HW's over a short distance...Johnson's shape/attitude is almost incidental.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Some people would give O'Brien the same sort of credit as Billy Conn is given for his loosing effort against Louis.

    I am not one of them.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nor am I...Louis is better than Johnson, and being clearly ahead after 12 is more impressive than being borderline after 6.

    But it doesn't have to be the greatest losing performance in history (which Conn's effort against Louis is IMO) to be genuinely impressive.
     
  8. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    A great achievement by O'Brien, but i don't think it should be considered that significant. After all, it was only 6 rounds. What if Lewis vs Bruno was over 6 rounds? Ali vs Mildenberger? Meehan vs Dempsey? Of course, they would've fought different if it ended after 6 and Bruno/Mildenberger weren't exactly middleweights, but my point is that a lot of people can look good for a select amount of rounds.

    Good for O'Brien, but i don't think it has much bearing on Johnson's resume. Is that correct English?
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with you, and like I say, I think Johnson was starting to break O'Brien down (the clinches, the cut eye, the bleeding mouth)

    40lbs, 3 inches, and even if you aren't in love with Johnson as a boxer in an era v era sense, he was amongst the best boxers of his time.

    Spot on as always.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Johnson was a lousy champion. I don't know why people have such a hard time with this self-evident fact.

    Really good fighter, not very good champ.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's a pretty miserable reign.

    Anyone know anything about this being listed as a title fight?
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have never disputed it and I am probably the biggest Johnson proponent on this board.
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    C'mon. If I can't find a good argument, I have to get back to doing real work.
     
  14. Grebfan9

    Grebfan9 Member Full Member

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    I think that Johnson's title reign would have been much better if he wasn't forced to fight the White Hopes - Ross, Kaufmann, etc.

    The promoters made these matches with these guys cause of the racism that was evident at that time.

    Had Johnson fought Langford, Jeanette and some of the other black Heavyweights, Johnson would have had a great title reign.

    Johnson would have been well prepared for these tough challengers.

    Grebfan9
     
  15. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I believe I've seen it listed as a title fight sometimes, and other times not. In those days there weren't the kind of commissions or sanctioning bodies that would flat out state something was a title fight or not, and sometimes reports and public opinion were not so sure or in agreement themselves, so it can be hard to discern.