Physically stronger: Muhammad Ali or Jack Johnson?

You need to rewatch the Foreman fight. Conventional wisdom is that Ali allowed Foreman to "punch himself out" which is partly true. The other part to that equation is that Ali was grabbing and stifling and wearing out Foreman, holding his arms, holding behind his neck and there was little Foreman could do about it. Foreman's best moments were at range, not inside. Foreman makes his last big stand in the 5th but Ali was still pushing Foreman off of him on the ropes, and by the end of the round has Foreman under control and reeling. Ali's strength was a huge factor in this fight. And he proved Foreman's equal if not master.

We can never know who is stronger between Johnson and Ali but I know who outworked the better, stronger, bigger fighters. I don't care how much of a fancy dan you are (which Ali was less and less in the 1970's), it takes immense strength to handle championship level heavyweights.

 

You're not understanding the term manhandle if you're trying to support the people I was ridiculing for saying it. I hate to think you don't know what manhandle means considering how verbose your vocabulary is. I repeat Ali NEVER manhandle either foreman or liston or anybody really. Manhandle is treating a grown man like a child... Manhandle is what Johnson did to burns... picking him up off the ground and moving him around the ring. Physically dominating your foe with your physicality. Ali did NONE of that... like NONE of that. Ali holding behind the head isn't manhandling.. **** it's not even hard to do. You do realize how weak neck muscles are right? That takes next to no strength at all to do. Holding somebody's arm some as they punch to tire their arms out... again takes very little strength to do. You're basically making them punch with weights on their arms.. smart strategy and one that worked... but isn't imposing hiimself on foreman nor is it close to manhandling.

The fact is, Ali never did such things to either fighter. He never walked foreman around the ring.. he never physically dominated foreman.. he never did any such thing. Letting somebody back you to the ropes.. pummel away at you... and in spurts grab their neck or amrs to tire them out... ISN'T MANHANDLING. That isn't how Ali fought.. He never fought to physically dominate his foe. Now, I agree with your last sentence that Ali was more proven against bigger men... I 100% agree. If that means to someone he is physically stronger than Johnson because he was mroe proven again big strong men and getting W's.. COOL... However, he wasn't stronger than Johnson. If you put them in a building and said lift this.. carry this... Johnson I have no doubt would be Ali's superior. Doesn't make him functionally as boxing strong per se.. but it also could do that as well. Who truly knows... but going by looks and physique... Johnson carries the day.

 

My coach never taught me "manhandling". I think I am glad for never being handled by man. However, I was taught how to spoil, stifle and control pace with my strength because I was ****** strong for my size. On the much bigger level of the game, I have watched guys do it successfully and tire their opponents with such tactics.

Ali largely controls Foreman with his strength by holding, pushing, leaning. No, it is not Johnson versus Burns... but I think I am safe in stating that Foreman was leagues stronger than Burns and leagues harder to control. They are not even comparable. You have to be an exceptionally strong man to do what Ali did to Foreman. He didn't merely stand there like a heavybag and let Foreman tire himself. In the end, I am much more impressed in terms of strength with what Ali did to the 220 pound, 6 foot 3 Foreman than what Johnson did to the 5 foot 7, 169 pound Burns.

 

i think johnson was stronger in a boxing sense than ali, who was plenty strong enoug. imo

 

I think Waldo is stronger than either.

 

John Ruiz probably has underrated strength too.

 

I also agree that Foreman is stronger than burns.. though I think burns strength is underrated a bit.. Foreman is stronger. That example was just used to how what "manhandling" looks like.... and at NO time in ANY of ALi fights did he manhandle anybody let alone foreman or Liston. Ali did spoil.. he did try and annoy.. he did try and tire Foreman out using various things.. some of them involving some strength.. but to act like some on here and say he was manhandling foreman or liston is an outright lie or gross distortion of the truth.. take your pick. In any event, I will maintain that Johnson is stronger than Ali.. but ali is mroe proven again bigger strong guys than Johnson.

 

They were both strong. Its impossible to know. Ali had a few pounds on Johnson but that doesn't mean he was stronger. Its just guessing really.

 

Johnson was 208 for his Jeffries fight in which he stated he was in his best shape. Ali was 212, so a negligible 4 lbs discrepancy. This can run and run , but there is no way of proving it either way.

 

I was thinking Johnson first off but i was watching Ali vs Terell and he pushed Earnie right off his feet and pushed him on the ropes and that made me think for a second im still undecided i can't see Ali forcing a guy like Jeffries hand behind his back like Johnson did

 

Jeffries was coming from a how many year lay off and how much pounds did he had to lose?

 

This isn't about stamina or reflexes etc it's about strength, he didn't exactly walk in the ring a skinny white boy with a twig torso and arms and legs...

 

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Me too

 

You'd better hope the deepest parts of hell are not reserved for liars.