Pick 5 fighters you think will have the best chance of being an ATG

Nothing wrong with excuses. If it makes them feel better about themselves and carry on that confidence, all good. Im sure Toney was probably out of shape for that fight though as he says he was, and MAB probably did have distractions, regardless, both guys stylistically was always gonna loose to both those opponents. I think a younger more aggresive MAB may have gotten it even worse.

 

I'm not in the mood to speculate over that. Barrera got his ass kicked, and that's all that matters and it's one of the greatest wins of the last 20 years.

 

Derrick Gainer was a champion. Beat a champion to get his belt. Gainer is easily as good as a Torres, Corley or Quintana.

I can almost guarantee that Marquez fought more reigning and more overall champions then Cotto has.

3 weight champion. Ring Magazine champion at 135. 5 time titlest. If that doesnt do it for you, his skills certainly should.

Marquez was no spring chicken when he fought these fighters and he was moving up in weight. He was what 33 and 34 when he fought Barrera and Casamayor respectively? And Casa was coming off a devastating KO of Katsidis. And the first and only time he's been KO'd in his career.

Nonsense. Barrera certainly wasnt prime, but he had rattled off wins over Pedan, Juarez, Morales and Ayala. Pretty much the same level opposition that Mosley was coming off of when he lost a close decision to Cotto.

MArquez draw and SD loss which most writers as said before thought he won is better then anything Cotto's done in his entire career sorry. Pacquiao may be top 20 greatest ever, and many feel Marquez owns him.

 

I dont put emphasis on winning titles. As to why Cotto's resume is smoke and mirrors. Technically he's a 3 weight champ, but the first title he won off a champion that wasnt vacated was Yuri Foreman the weakest at 154.


Marquez on the other hand won his titles off of champions, that won their titles off of champions. And Marquez being acknowledged as the best in the division is something Cotto has never even come close to achieving. Even at welter you'd pick 4 guys maybe 5 if you think Mosley gets him in a rematch that'd beat him at welter. How many fighters you choosing over Marquez at 130 and 135?

 

Mayweather beat the best lightweight of the decade at 135. Cotto never beat the best anything at any weight.

Mayweather beat the 2nd best 130lber who came back and dominated the division again 2 years later after a prison sentence.

IMO Both Chico and Castillo are better then Cotto both in terms of resume and ability. But Cotto's always been overrated until another guy makes him take a knee again. Probably Sergie or williams this titme.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

I'll give you that. He was not a great fighter, but he was about on that level.

I can almost guarantee that if we actually went through each name specifically, there would be practically no distinction between the resumes.

What is it with you and belts? You sound just like a Floyd Mayweather apologist would, doing anything in your power to avoid the real issue.

Manuel Medina is a 5-time Featherweight World Champion. I suppose this would qualify him for All-Time Great status in your mind, Warrior.

Juan Manuel Marquez's career was just starting to catch momentum as their careers were finishing. We're not going to argue over this, Marquez still had a lot left whereas his opposition didn't. You can quote numbers, but it really is that simple. Casamayor should have lost to Cruz, and he on the verge of being knocked out by a one-dimensional Katsidis several times throughout their bout. Marco Antonio Barrera would retire the same year, and looked terrible in the fight itself.

The only two impressive wins and performance among those names were Ayala and Morales, and they happened two years prior to the Marquez fight. To say Marco wasn't prime is an understatement, by 2007 he was a shadow of what he once was. Soft in the body, significantly slowed, and he couldn't carry his stamina through 12 like before, hence why he lost the Championship rounds against Dinamita and was out on his feet against Rocky Juarez the first time. Barrera was the equivalent to a Joshua Clottey that night and this is coming from someone who owns nearly all of his fights on DVD.

I'm not most writers. Unless the fights are outrageously one-sided, I will side with the judges and Marquez hasnt' defeated Pacquiao. What is it you don't ****ing understand? He drew and lost. He hasn't defeated Manny Pacquiao, and so nothing on his win column is particularly impressive, nothing on his win column is better than Cotto's win over Mosley.

We'll agree to disagree. Marquez is an ATG in your mind because he has lots of shiny belts at home, whereas I'm more reserved after having actaually looked at the opposition he defeated. "But he got ducked". Irrelevant. "But he drew with Pacquiao and many had him winning the second fight". Irrelevant. Let's all promote Pat Cowdell to ATG status because he ran Salvador Sanchez close.

 

It is quite relevant actually.

You keep talking about belts don't mean nothing. Ok, so does Marquez p4p ranking help justify ATG status ahead of Cotto. Marquez has been top 3 p4p, has cotto?

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

It's relevant if we're discussing who was greater but we aren't' discussing that. Miguel is not as great as Marquez, this is something I've already said many times, but when I look at their resumes, they are comparable. I really don't see how or why anyone would dispute this. :huh

 

Cotto has never dominated a division like Marquez has.

 

:shock: It's like talking to a ****ing dummy.

I swear all of you Floyd apologists read from the same script.

 

Given that Marquez has won 6 versions of the title, and Cotto only 4 I guarantee this wont be the case,

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I just explained my reasoning above. Marquez beat champions. He wasnt gifted vacant belt after vacant belt by Top Rank while Cotto was. He actually unified and reigned for 2 years. Which included wins over Orlando Salido, another world champion and a draw with Manny Pacquiao.

Belts dont mean anything to me, but they can if you attempt to unify or if you beat a champion to get it. Cotto's vacated straps hardly exist.

Was he ever Ring champ?

And Casamayor and Barrera were both competitive in their respective fights with Marquez. Clearly that atleast had a little bit something left in the tank. And Marquez being a career featherweight and being the first to KO casa still means something even if Casa was on the slide.

Fair enough.

He drew and "lost" to the best fighter of this generation "allegedly". That is far superior then anything Cotto has ever accomplished. Cotto got blown out of the water by the very same fighter. What dont you understand when everyone else is trying to explain to you. Yes it wasnt a victory, but it still shows how far an away better Marquez then Cotto.

Nope because he beat champions, unified titles and became king of an division, and if it wasnt for 1 round on the scorecards you could credibly call him king of 2 divisions, something Cotto's never come close to accomplishing.

How many times was Crowdell crowned champ in his division?