Pick Matchup Nightmare for ATG HWs

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by 70sFan865, Jun 24, 2019.


  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,574
    May 30, 2019
    Pick matchup nightmares for these ATG heavyweights.

    Criteria: fighters must be roughly the same size (at most 5 lbs and 2 inches difference).

    ATGs:

    Bob Fitzsimmons (around 5'11 and 170 lbs)
    James Jeffries (around 6'1 and 215 lbs)
    Jack Johnson (around 6'1 and 200 lbs)
    Gene Tunney (around 6'0 and 185 lbs)
    Joe Louis (around 6'2 and 205 lbs)
    Max Baer (around 6'3 and 215 lbs)
    Sonny Liston (around 6'0 and 215 lbs)
    Joe Frazier (around 5'11 and 205 lbs)
    Mike Tyson (around 5'10 and 215 lbs)
    Evander Holyfield (around 6'2 and 210 lbs)

    Some listed numbers may be a bit off, but please use them as a reference point. I don't want to argue here whether Tyson was at his best at 210 or 220 lbs ;)
     
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,562
    May 4, 2017
    Baer wasn`t an all-time gret heavyweight and never did anything to achieve that status, also he never avenged his loss to a lower level fighter like Braddock.
     
    moneytheman12 likes this.
  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,574
    May 30, 2019
    Alright, then don't include him if you wish.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  4. BundiniBlack

    BundiniBlack Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,555
    412
    May 20, 2015
    Vitali is the nightmare matchup for every HW
     
    moneytheman12 likes this.
  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,574
    May 30, 2019
    He doesn't meet size criteria though. Besides, I'd take quite a few heavyweights over him.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  6. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

    2,665
    2,687
    Jan 28, 2018
    ATGs:

    Bob Fitzsimmons (around 5'11 and 170 lbs) Dunno, maybe the lightest Marciano, buts thats no fair weightclass.
    James Jeffries (around 6'1 and 215 lbs) Too less film.
    Jack Johnson (around 6'1 and 200 lbs) As a master of grab, push, fight and repeat, I see a constant walking Joe Frazier beeing horrible. Quick Louis would figure this out as well.
    Gene Tunney (around 6'0 and 185 lbs) Marciano might walk him down, as well as 190s-Holyfield.
    Joe Louis (around 6'2 and 205 lbs) Good mover with a chin and jab: Ali Tough with a 210 limit, real tough. I see a trimmed to the bones 210 Mercer from 89 doing well.
    Max Baer (around 6'3 and 215 lbs) A chin and better artillery: Tua, Ibeabuchi (too heavy), Foreman
    Sonny Liston (around 6'0 and 215 lbs) Good mover with enough chin and jab: Ali, Tucker, Holmes, Thomas or durable boxer-punchers: Mercer, Holyfield. Liston was versatile, so thats no nightmare. From the upper weightclasses I think Fury is not beatable for Sonny.
    Joe Frazier (around 5'11 and 205 lbs) Tyson, Foreman, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Wilder (all too heavy). Louis should bomb him out at that weight.
    Mike Tyson (around 5'10 and 215 lbs) Boxers where his mobility, speed, reflexes, sharp power and fighting around the jab are nullified, meeting heavy artillery himself: Tua, Ibeabuchi.
    Evander Holyfield (around 6'2 and 210 lbs) better speed than him: Holmes, Ali. 70s-Foreman would be horrible for a younger brawlhappy Evander, but he might somehow survive and win.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,574
    May 30, 2019
    Some nice replies, but how could you pick Tua to beat peak Tyson? I don't see it happening at all...
     
    ironchamp likes this.
  8. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

    2,665
    2,687
    Jan 28, 2018
    I see a very ugly Mathis-type fight with Tua going nowhere beeing right in front of MT. Maybe thats the first time we see Tyson fighting on backfoot, with more lateral movement?
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,901
    Mar 3, 2019
    I think all of these fall prey to a prime Ezzard Charles or Jersey Joe Walcott
    All lose a prime Foreman imo

    FOTC Joe Frazier takes this one imo

    I'd take Iron Mike and Sonny Liston here
    No one his size, yeah he was that good
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,574
    May 30, 2019
    Do you think that Tunney and Johnson would lose against Walcott? I'm not so sure about it. Both have better chins and probably even defense than him.
    I can also see Johnson mauling weaker Charles inside and get clear decision, though this one is tough to decide.

    I'd like to see Walcott against Fitzsimmons, but Walcott was mostly a counter puncher. You don't win with Fitz on his own game unless you are durable as hell. Fitz dealt with Corbett's movement fairly well and Corbett was more defensive minded fighter than Walcott.

    I like the rest of your answers, though for Baer I'd pick someone like Holyfield or Ali over Foreman. There is a slim chance that Baer would outslug George, but he wouldn't beat Ali with his ATG jab or ultimate counter puncher like Evander. Od course Louis is another option against Baer.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    16,261
    15,323
    Jun 9, 2007
    Good post...nice shout out for a in shape focused Mercer. He was very good when he like that.
     
  12. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    16,261
    15,323
    Jun 9, 2007
    Very good post too
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,317
    11,711
    Mar 19, 2012
    Tyson at or near his peak? He would be so much faster than Tua. Mike would Knock Tua out.
    Maybe the later 90s version of Tyson would lose interest if Tua could survive the early rounds.
     
    moneytheman12 likes this.
  14. TragicMagic

    TragicMagic New Member Full Member

    39
    31
    Jun 21, 2019
    Ali vs Ezzard Charles
    Mike Tyson vs Joe Louis
    Max Baer vs George Foreman
    Sonny Liston vs George Foreman
    Rocky Marciano vs Ali
    Jack Dempsey vs any of the Klitschko brothers
    Hurricane Jackson vs James Toney (not ATG at heavyweight but still a great)
     
  15. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,647
    9,467
    Jan 10, 2007
    Yeah, Tyson was much quicker, smarter, way more skilled and could put great combinations together unlike Tua, Tyson KO4 Tua prime for prime