Pick one lightheavyweight to fight Jack Johnson

To the larger argument we are going in circles. I respect all the opinions posted here. They have done well to put Johnson's reign in perspective, though I still feel the his profound social significance has greatly inflated his actual boxing legacy. Furthermore, given what empircal evidence we have (film), I do not see Johnson as that great a challenge to modern fighters. I am really suspect of firsthand accounts of his greatness because even if these are completely objective, they are still the observations of someone who had not at the time seen a Tunney, Louis, Walcott, Liston, Ali, Holmes, i.e. the development of the division. Those observations are merely comparing Johnson to a rather crude lot.

To one point, though, I have never read that the Jim Johnson fight was scheduled for anything but 20 rounds. I have never heard that it was anything but Johnson quitting with an arm injury, which I call a knock out. I would be curious to read more.

 

'I joined Jack's camp, but I only boxed with him once. It was no use my trying to hit him. He was the most wonderful defensive fighter who ever put a glove on. So he was no assistance to me, whatever I may have been to him. Funnily enough, although Johnson knew he had to lose, he did put in some fairly hard training. It had been agreed that the fight had to last twenty-six rounds, so Jack had to be fairly fit. He went on the road and I went with him; but Jack wasn't wanting to strain himself to any extent. I would leave him on the road to cover my distance, and then return to the camp, and would pass Jack plugging along. he had had to pull up for rests every few hundred yards.'

 

I have read the Jim Johnson fight was 20 rounds. Jack Johnson quit in 10, and even if it was 10, he should have lost that decision to journeyman Jim Johnson. I have the news read. I also have Johnson's news read vs O'Brien, and the paper seems to indicate that the blown up middle weight with no power was slightly the better in 6 rounds. If you mix in Ketchel knocking him down, barely edging an average contender Moran, not fighting any of the top talents while champion, and getting knocked out by one of the lesser linear champions in Willard, I just do not see Johnson as great champion aside from his social impacts.

If you want, I could repost some of the news articles.

 

Everytime I've discredited these myths which you insist on perpetuating you disappear from said thread and pop up with it all again..!!

Ketchel fight was STAGED. Fight film indicates it (no contact from the punch), and so does every shred of evidence surrounding the fight.

Jack Johnson knocked O'Brien down in two of the six rounds, and was fighting hungover.

He beat Moran, and he outboxed Willard for 20 rounds, although at 38 he could not win the endurance contest. You can hardly hold it against him.

 

Power, Recup power,pressure,unorthodox style

 

Are you sure? What other fights were staged for Johnson to win? Ketchel Caught Johnson high on the head behind the ear. And by the looks of it, Johnson was hurt from the one clean punch that landed. He rolled over, and had to brace himself to get up.

And O’Brien won 3 of the 6 rounds. Perhaps 4 of 6.. Where is the re-match here to clear things up? In addition, what about a re-match for Jim Johnson, who was robbed of the linear championship?

Did you see these fights? I have seen most of the rounds. Moran was nearly even with Johnson. It was a very close fight. No--Johnson did not outbox Willard for 20 rounds. More like 15, then Willard took over later. If you want to get the age of Johnson's loss to Willard correct the next time around, he had just turned 37 years of age. Willard was no spring chicken in this fight either.

 

I just think an all-time great should not need so much of his career couched in conditional statements... "he was hungover," "it was staged," "he was green," "he was old," "the fight went on too long," "he hurt his arm"... this just all makes me fairly critical of any assertions that he was head and shoulders above the rest of his day.

 

Actually I have watched the Ketchel fight quite a bit recently,it does appear that Jack is going down without contact being made,I know Mendoza won't agree with me he isnt a fan of Johnson fair enough ,but I would ask anyone to watch the film very closely and make their own mind up.

 

I disagree. The flim, which is missing some frames shows that Ketchel landed a blow to the top of Johnson head above his ear. The news paper headline says: