This thread is hilarious. Did I really read someone state the fact that the Archie Moore Marciano fought was a better heavyweight than Ali against Foreman ? Now we have people making statements that Marciano is pretty much as big a guy as Liston after seeing a poorly shot B & W pic shown from the waist up in which a chubby looking Marciano is wearing a polo neck and a blazer. Liston weighed THIRTY pounds heavier than Rocky in their title winning fights vs Patterson and Walcott. A very large differentiation. The forum seems to have been invaded by a horde of fanatical Marciano fans who love to type shout nonsense about how a 5 ft 10, 185 pound guy with a tiny wing span and a propensity to bleed like a fountain would ravage his way through heavyweights who would outweigh him by at least twenty if not thirty or forty pounds. This is despite Rocky never defeating a real live prime world class natural HEAVYWEIGHT who weighed more than 200 pounds. Charles and Moore are absolute all time great, legendary fighters but both were old men who did their best work at lighter weights. This is indisputable. Charles had previously been put to sleep by Jersey Joe and outpointed by various fighters in the couple of years prior to facing the Rock. He was neither prime nor at his best at heavyweight. Jersey Joe himself was the oldest heavyweight champion in history when Rocky bested him in a fight the Rock was losing before landing the Suzy Q in round 13. It wasnt like Rocky defeated some monstrous killer to win the crown. Rex Layne and Roly La Starza were not notable, world class heavyweights from an historical perspective. I thought I would add that as a last comment. Despite these comments I am still in awe of Marciano's fighting spirit, his willingness to be in great shape for all his title fights and at the fanaticism of his biggest fans. Cheers All.