Pinklon Thomas v. Larry Holmes (1985) IBF/WBC Heavyweight unification fight

This is it. Close decision either way.

 

I watched Thomas vs Witherspoon. That was probably the best fight I've seen him in so far. He seemed to be an arm puncher & not get much weight behind his shots. I'm going to watch the Weaver fight soon. What caused him to fade so much? He looked kind of sluggish against Berbick. He showed great chin & big heart against Tyson but that was a bad match speed wise. That was the first time I actually saw him fight back then.

I still think Holmes would win a decision but it would be a fairly close one.

 

Thomas looked like the best fighter in the world when he beat Tim Witherspoon. And there really was nothing to go on to predict he could have been as good. Trouble is Thomas NEVER replicated that form. It was his Tokyo Douglas night.

Without the hindsight, at the time, Pink looks better than Larry so it is not unreasonable to pick him. And I also think this fight should have happened.

With hindsight however, I think we know that Thomas would Fukk up. He lost to Berbick for goodness sake.

 

Beating Witherspoon was nothing like a Tokyo Douglas night. A guy like Thomas hardly needed an otherworldy performance comparative his norm to edge Witherspoon. He backed this up with a very nice win over Weaver, a guy who had given peak Holmes no end of trouble.

Thomas was a fine fighter with a really good jab and it got him past Witherspoon on his merits. It was no fluke as you are trying to make out.

Hindsight doesn't make Thomas any less of a chance against Holmes. He had two superb performances between mid 84 and mid 85. If they fought it would have been around Holmes fights against Williams and Spinks, two very underwhelming performances from Larry.

If anything hindsight shows us Holmes was very ripe for the picking at the exact time a match between the two would have taken place. We also know Thomas was in excellent form.

We don't know Thomas would fukk up at all. To the contrary we know he had two fine performances at the time the bout would have eventuated. With hindsight we know Holmes lost at this time to a light heavyweight "for goodness sake".

Thomas had not lost to Berbick until 6 months after Holmes was beaten by Spinks. He was traveling fine at the time it mattered.

Many posters in the thread have picked Thomas regardless of your personal perception of this hindsight.

It would have been very tight. Holmes had been struggling against fighters with far less ability then Thomas. No shame, he was well past it but that's exactly the point.

 

There comes a point in every great champion's career when they are no longer the best in the world...the question is, when did that point in time arrive for Holmes? I reckon in Larry's case (& in Larry's mind) it was circa late '83 early '84.

By 1984, Thomas beats Holmes on points...

 

Apart from being black, Pinky and Mercer had nothing in common. Or very little.

 

If Thomas maintains his form of the Witherspoon fight,he edges out a fading Holmes.

 

What Thomas ? The one that looked very good against Witherspoon or flopped in early 86 vs Berbick ?

A top Thomas was no slouch .. he had a hammer jab, a decent right hand and was a tough, smart fighter .. he has speed but was not blazing fast and really relied on a powerful jab .. he was not a big time combo puncher .. Holmes was clearly slipping by 85 but still had a lot left .. it is a fight I'd favor Larry in a close decision but an upset would be possible ..

 

How do you see Thomas cope with Williams or Spinks?

Weaver was a disqualification winner having been knocked out after the first bell had sounded against somebody called Tony Anthony in his previous fight to challenging Thomas. Weaver had not beaten a rated fighter since 1981! Yet somehow Weaver is a good challenger in 1985?

1979 was a long time earlier.

 

He'd go quite well. Williams wasn't all that, his biggest claim to fame is giving Holmes a great fight, a fight some believed Williams won. Apart from that he did very little. He actually got poleaxed by the same Mike Weaver you are trying to discredit when beaten by Thomas!


The only notable heavyweight Spinks ever beat was a tired Holmes. Holmes looked terrible that night and i expect he had taken Spinks for granted. In the rematch Holmes looked a fair bit better and in reality should have got the decision. I'd take Thomas.

How do you see Holmes going again against Witherspoon? It was a close fight originally and Holmes had slipped. Of course Holmes was never going to make this match.

Let me get this straight - you are using the result of Weaver - Anthony against Weaver? :shock:

Weaver was 19-8 when he gave Larry a great fight. He was extremely green and only learnt to believe in himself around this time. The only fight he had lost between Holmes and Thomas was a disputed stoppage loss to Dokes. He came back and proved that a fluke, taking Dokes into deep water in a fight the majority believe he won.

Lets not pretend Weaver was damaged goods. The Thomas loss was probably the fight that put him on the downhill side, tho he pole axed Williams next fight just 9 months after he gave Holmes such a struggle. .

 

Thomas at ths point, which is why Holmes wouldn't fight him. Then again you never know with a junkie.

 

wasn't all that? William's beat an unbeaten Jesse Ferguson, Bert Cooper, Trevor Berbick and took both Holmes and Witherspoon to split verdicts. Tim Witherspoon says Williams had the best jab of any fighters he fought. Their fight could have went either way, Tim was as lucky to get that decision over Williams as Holmes was.

Berbick Holmes and Witherspoon were the best three heavyweights of the era. Williams beat one of them and lost debatable decisions to the other two.

yes he did. It was a one off though wasn't it? Tyson did later replicated it but back in 1985 Williams would have given Thomas life and death. Williams also beat Berbick who Thomas lost to.

I think the Spinks that Holmes fought would have given Thomas a tougher fight than Weaver did.

That would have been a good fight. As good as Holmes v Thomas. I also wish this rematch took place. Tim gave Holmes a good fight but Larry was able to stop Bonecrusher Smith, Witherspoon wasn't and later got bone crushed in a rematch with Smith. In fact in rematches Tim did not do so good. Both Page and Smith knocked him out in rematches. Apart from Spinks, Larry did very well in rematches. Shavers, Weaver, Smith.

Weaver suffered a genuine concussion in this fight. It was hardly good preparation for his first fight with a rated opponent in nearly four years.

Three whole years and five months earlier. Holmes gets slammed for fighting the guys he fought yet the WBC keep Weaver rated all those years without fighting rated guys?

coming back and proving flukes is a bit like Williams coming back after his surprise loss to Weaver to beat Bert Cooper and Trevor Berbick.

...and in his next fight he got bone crushed by the Bonecrusher which just goes to show Weaver was ultimately a mixed bag. A danger man like Bob Satterfeild with as much chance of getting wiped out in his next fight.

 

Ferguson, unbeaten in a whopping 13 fights. Bert Cooper? Really.

Let's not pretend he beat prime versions of Spoon and Berbick. Berbick was two years past the Tyson whalloping and never won another high level fight adfter this. For perspective it was a whopping 7 years after Homes beat him. Berbick, like the rest of the 80's lot excepting Holmes could be very inconsistent as well. Back to back losses to Snipes and Gordon (cruiserweight) showed this.

Tho still handy Spoon had been on a steady decline for a long time. It was over 4 years since he'd been blown out by Smith and a whopping 8 years since Holmes beat him.

He also rated it far better than Holmes', and said in the article Holmes wasn't hard to fight, had no body attack, couldn't slip punches, etc etc etc. Should we take that on board too?

Already addressed the fights with Spoon and Berbick, well past their best. The top 2 outside of Holmes are very debatable since the rest of the era were so inconsistent. Regardless well past their best.

Still happened.

Williams would have given Thomas life and death in your opinion. Thomas may have axed him. He'd just beaten the Weaver that smashed Williams. You also claimed the other day ****ey gave Holmes life and death, absolute utter baloney.

Williams didn't beat the Berbick Thomas lost to, he beat the version that Tyson had monstered. He never came back from that, not to say was aged as well by the time Willimas fought him.

Well Thomas went thru Weaver pretty well so maybe he would. Over 12 riunds there's a chance the Thomas jab would have controlled him. Who knows.

You love bringing up these names and using them in a hugely biased way. Mike Weaver SMASHED the Carl Williams that took Holmes deep in just two rounds. Comprende?

You are terrible. Page and Witherspoon were dead men walking FFS. Rest assured if Page beat a decent version of Tim i would be all over it.

And then you bring up the Holmes - Weaver rematch as if it matters? NFI.

Holmes never rematched anyone that gave him trouble before he was dethroned.

The Witherspoon - Smith rematch had a couple of things going on but true 80's fans would know that.

How do you know? Plenty of great fights have been won by people stretched out the previous fight. You are just trying to take away from Thomas.

If you had any clue at all about the 80's you'd know why.

No-one here is spewing forth excuses for Weaver and nor did Weaver win enough defenses to be under the spotlight via his opponents.

I'm thinking that win over Bert Cooper! puts him just outside the top 10 of all time, and, well, the win over peak Berbick seals his inclusion :good

The only truly non mixed bag of the 80's was Holmes.

Weaver actually had a fine run post Holmes, even with periods of inactivity. His peak years were probably wasted tbh, and he was fading by the time he fought Thomas/Williams/Smith. He got a bit chinny. You could easily make a case for him above Berbick.

THE END!!!! :good

 

I agree with this. Larry was really the only consistent heavyweight at that time.

The end.