We often see posters here claiming a certain fighter is a C class fighter while another is a B+ and then another A-...and so on.... So please explain as detailed as possible how you identify the classes in which you put certain fighters. EXAMPLE : - How the fighter's record influences your score; - How, who the fighter fought previously, influences your score; - In regards to skills, what is it that you look for the most, in order to rate certain fighters higher than others.
I rate fighters on how they look when I watch them...people get to caught up in who they fought and their size chin..etc. I watch them fight then I watch another guy fight ...and I decide wh is better...IE. I watch PBF and see tremendous defense smarts speed all the tools u need to be a fighter and I rate him higher than a guy that is bigger and stonger like AM because i have alson watched him fight a ton of times and he does not have a good skill set...
A fighters record influences my score a little as I feel level of opposition is more important. Who the fighter in question has fought but more importantly how the fighter fought. And how good was his opponent? How good was his performance Skillwise, I would have to say Ring Intelligence is most important to me. Of course not all fighters are extremely gifted but if they are intelligent enough to utilize what skills they do have and do so in a consistent and adaptive manner, they rank quite high in my book Great thread pasky
I rate fighters through their wins, how they win, opposition, skills, achievements, and so on.. One example, I rank Margo #1 at 147 with Cotto #2 and Williams #3.. Most people would have Williams at #1 because he beat Margo, but when Mayweather left, Cotto became #1 and Margo defeated him thus being ranked #1 at 147.. Also, another example is I rate Pacquiao as an A fighter with Katsidis being a C fighter.. Although Pacquiao has one more lost the Katsidis, he's achieved so much in so many divisions.. Has defeated some of the best opposition while Katsidis has a weaker resume and hasn't really achieved anything significant besides some Australian/Intercontinental titles.. Not sure of which ones he held, but none have been ABC titles or linear titles.. And although Pac doesn't have the best skills, he's more technically sound than Katsidis.. It's hard for me to explain, but I'm sure some other people can explain it a whole lot better..
i look at who they fought but it doesnt matter as much as other things ring intelligence is very important to me me personally i like power punchers so power helps in my ratings defense also is very important but there are alot of things that i rate fighters on
Well, let's take Bute. How good is he now? Before the Bika fight, I looked at his skills. Good footwork, good speed, good power, good speed, good use of the ring, nice combinations, still unbeaten, still to be knocked down...so I thought this guy is probably a world class fighter (B level). No way of knowing for sure, though, because he had not fought any world class fighters yet. What kind of world class fighter, though? B- (barely world class), B (solid world class); B+ (top world class)? Impossible to know at that stage. The Bika fight. Bika has been in with Beyer, with whom he had a very close fight and looked like beating him, and with Calzaghe, with whom he had a close fight, winning a good couple of rounds. The Calzaghe fight was taken at short notice. Against Bute, he had all the time in the world to prepare. So, Bika was at least B-, if not better. Bute beat Bika by 7 rounds to 5, so he was at least as good as Bika, at least B-. After the Bika fight, I learned Bute could take a good punch, so his chin was world class too. I learned he could come back in a fight in which he was being led and impose his gameplan. I learned he could finish strong. So...his chin and stamina were good, he was disciplined, kept a cool head and could turn a fight around by changing his strategy and responding to the opponent's gameplan. I thought Bute was B- to B at this stage. The Berrio fight. Berrio was a huge puncher with true one-punch KO power. He was crafty and unpredictable, a switch hitter. He had KOed some good fighter with a good chin, but he was chinny. Bute took some flush bombs and was fine. This fight proved to me Bute had a very good chin, B+ or better. Bute showed that he could tie up Berrio when he had to, that he could box with an unpredictable boxer like him and take care of himself in there. I thought Bute was at least B at this stage. The Joppy fight. Joppy was a middleweight and he was very faded. I looked in this fight at Bute's pure skills. His jab seemed better, he seemed more fluid, his movement was better and he seemed to have got better all-round. I thought Bute was B to B+ at this stage. The Andrade fight. Andrade has KOed some good fighters after wearing them down. He was a relentless pressure fighter, tough as a bull, strong, dangerous from the first second to the last. He gave Kessler a very hard fight, physically. Kessler had to be at his best to stay on top of him. Won 2-3 rounds against Kessler. I had seen Bute have problems with people coming at him, applying pressure, in the Bika fight and in the Berrio fight, rounds 3-4. I knew this was going to be Bute's biggest test. Could he take pressure? Was he tough enough? Was his stamina good enough? Did he have a good enough inside game? Bute seemed as good as I thought he was on the outside, but on the inside, his only tactic was to clinch. Clinching stopped Andrade from advancing, but robbed Bute of a lot of energy and led to him getting head-butted, rabbit-punched, elbowed in the face and upercutted on the inside. Bute still looked very unconfortable under pressure. Fortunately, on the two occasions when that pressure got too much, the ref stepped in a gave Bute a breather, warning Andrade for coming in with his head. The last round showed that Bute's stamina wasn't as good as I thought it would be. It was B, but not better. Also, it showed me that Bute was tough, but not tougher than B. Everything else, stayed the same for me. His chin was still B+, etc. After this fight, I have Bute as B to B+, but not better. He hadn't developed an inside game save the clinch, which he was allowed to get away with much to much by the ref, and which wasn't even very effective, because it sapped him of strength and led to Andrade roughing him up on the inside. If I look at Bute against Andrade and compare him with the version that fought Bika, I don't see much improvement. On the other hand, he proved certain things that make me think he was better than B-/B, against Bika. There is some improvement, but Bute hasn't developed his game. He's just improved a bit on the areas he was already quite good in. This makes me think that it's unlikely he'll get better than a B+, at top world class level fighter, at his peak. He will always have big problems with relentless pressure fighters. He has never been in against a top boxer who is strong, with very good speed and high workrate, so we don't know whether he could outbox him either. A pressure fighter with boxing skills would certainly give him a lot of trouble. That's how I go about it.
EXAMPLE : - How the fighter's record influences your score; IF HE'S BEEN FIGHTING BUMS THEN HE'S NOT BOUND TO GET HIGH GRADES - How, who the fighter fought previously, influences your score; DEPENDS ON HOW HE DID, IF HE DID GOOD AGAINST AN UNKNOWN FIGHTER, IT DOESNT MERIT HIM SH**, BUT IF HE DID GOOD AGAINST A b+ FIGHTER THAN WE CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT - In regards to skills, what is it that you look for the most, in order to rate certain fighters higher than others. DEFENCE, WORK RATE, OFFENSE AND HEART
Give some examples of : C- fighters : C fighters : C+ fighters : B- fighters : B fighters : B+ fighters : A- fighters : A fighters : A+ fighters :
I don't pay that much attention to records. Records do not win fights. It might be dangerous, but for me it helps to just watch and try to make a judgement on their skillset and how it will matchup long term. Obvious technical things to look for are jab, variety of punch, footwork, defence. Physically - speed, power, chin, reflexes, stamina. And then intangibles, mental strength, how they react under pressure or whether they are a front runner, ring intelligence.
For me, right now: C- fighters : ?? C fighters : Tony Dodson C+ fighters : Brian Magee, Tatevosyan, Thysse, Haussler, Sanavia B- fighters : Miranda, Manfredo Jr., Stieglitz B fighters : Bika, Berrio B to B+: Bute, Andrade B+ : Taylor at MW, Dawson B+ to A- fighters : Kessler, Williams, Cotto, Pavlik at MW A- fighters : Calzaghe, Hopkins, Margarito A : Pacquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez D = domestic/national level C = continental level B = world class: the best in the world A = elite: able to be competitive and give a very close fight to anyone in their division ever. :good
I think we often get too caught up in compartmentalizing fighters. Putting them in some sort of neat little box, all this B- C+ stuff is a little too rigid for my tastes.
I agree, especially since fighters have good days and bad days and since they do better against certain styles than others, etc.; these letter thingies are useful as a way of describing level of performance, though, because otherwise, you'd have to say something like: "Oh, he was very, very good, but not quite excellent, if you know what I mean!" :think
