please stop saying he is an all time great

There is a reason why manny always losing in fantasy match-ups against the greats. Great matchmaking by top rank. He's lucky he doesn't have more losses.

 

Firstly, the this guy beat this guy who beat that guy argument doesn't hold a lot of weight in boxing because when you get evenly matched guys (elite level in this discussion) the styles of the participants has a major say in the outcome of the fight. You also have to factor in that Maidana, whilst still crude, added an element of thought and technique to his game after teaming up with Garcia. This happened after the Khan and Alexander fights and made him a better fighter.

Secondly, as Floyd said he would do before the Maidana fights, he would hold his ground more and engage and not "run". Floyd was hurt by the criticism that all's he does is run, so he said before the fight that he would stand in the pocket more and show he could win that way. Maidana getting inside of Floyd was a mix of Maidana's style and Floyd's tactics. Look at the lack of holding by Floyd in those fights, particularly the first fight, for further evidence of this. Floyd generally holds when opponents get up close (Hatton, Pac to name just two). He refused to hold as much in the Maidana fights. That wasn't down to being less of a fighter as it is not to difficult to grab on to someone when they are stood right in front of you. It was a conscious decision not to hold.

Also, if a lot of people scored either fight for Maidana, what that shows is not that Mayweather has dramatically declined, but rather that a lot of people don't know how to score fights correctly. Considering that we see on this forum week in and week out a lot of posters calling fights badly, I am more inclined to be believe the latter.

I respect Freddie Roach a lot. The guy knows far more about the sport than me. However, him claiming that Floyd's legs are shot has, in my opinion, been proven wrong by Floyd showing good and nimble footwork in his fight with Pacquiao. Freddie is a very astute man, but it is not the first time he has got something wrong and I dare say it will be the last. There's nothing wrong with that and I am not having a pop at him. it's just a part of life.

It is like I said in an earlier post, Mayweather's legs (and overall athleticism for that matter) are not what they where, but, they are far from shot. The boxing world, and particularly the online boxing world, needs to stop looking at things in black and white. It seems, to these people, fighters and their attributes are either peak or shot. There is a vast expanse in between these two.

 

I beat you in FNC! LOL

 

I won't really go into the Maidana thing as I just talked about that in a post in this thread just before this one, so if you want you can look at that for my opinion on why Maidana had some success in the Floyd fight.

You say Pac can only fight at one range and doesn't use his jab well, so I can see that you know a bit about boxing. So why then do you say at the top of your post that people where saying Floyd had declined more and Pac would overwhelm and blitz Floyd? When did Pac last blitz and overwhelm people for long periods in a fight?

I have seen you post before, Pimp C, and you seem a knowledgeable guy, so I am a bit confused as to why people saying something that clearly isn't true would have any bearing on reality and your own interpretation of it.

It doesn't matter what some of the idiots on here said pre-fight or what some more knowledgeable people said because they had got caught up in the over the top hype of the fight. This doesn't change reality when you look at it objectively and strip away all the hype and "fanboy" and "hater" biased ramblings.

The reality is is that this fight should have happened five years ago as they where both the top two guys in boxing and both at their respective WW peak. It didn't happen so we can't say for sure who would have won. We can speculate though, and in my opinion, the 2009 version of Manny was a non-stop, quick, hard-hitting buzzsaw of activity. Yes, he was predictable to an extent and had flaws, but his athleticism and toughness made up for those flaws. This for me is someone who could have caused Mayweather great problems...even the 2009 Mayweather. Maybe not enough problems to win, but enough to make the fight far more interesting and competitive than the one we saw earlier this month. The 2015 Manny does not poses these attributes anymore, at least not enough to use these attributes for three minutes of every round. This Manny has not existed since the Margarito fight.

As for the JMM ****ogy - that would only be the case if JMM fought in the same style as Floyd. JMM and Floyd share some traits, but JMM had great success against Manny, not just with counter punching, but, more importantly, standing toe-to-toe with Manny and throwing when Manny threw. Floyd would not have fought in this way, so where as we can take some lessons from the Pac-JMM fights, we can not use those fights as a perfect barometer for a peak Pac vs Peak Floyd fight as Floyd is not a direct better version of JMM due to them having different styles.

 

Pac blitz Algieri all night in his previous fight. atsch

Floyd beats Excusequiao in any point in time. We've heard all these dumb analysis before that Manny had the style to beat Floyd. HE NEVER HAS! STOP ALREADY. For FIVE years I said Manny gets schooled when he finds the gonads to test. HE DID. FACTS are facts! :deal

 

Fair enough. I didn't really mention that point you made about the height difference earlier, so apologies for that.

I still believe in all that I have said, but, I suppose it does help when you have certain physical advantages.

 

For a start, Algieri is on a far lower level than the guys Pac has been accustomed to fighting. Looking one way against Algieri and then looking that way against a true world class opponent are two completely different things. Secondly, compare the Algieri fight with Pac against ODLH, Margarito, Cotto. He was comparatively far more considered in the Algieeri fight.

If you think that Manny never had the style to beat Floyd then please give your reasons...it may also help to not use childish tricks like "Excusequiao", typing in caps and employing those pathetic emoticon things or whatever they are called. I find that they don't really add any weight to a persons argument.

 

:|:|:|

I stopped debating with reason with ANY Excusequiao fan a long time ago. :| Watch it in slow motion, Pac won. :| The world loves Manny, they hate Floyd so Pac won. :| God is with Manny :blabla It's always a moving target. The fact is Manny refused to fight Floyd over RBT and that's why this fight wasn't made five years ago. Bring on the excuses, Excusequiao fan.

Four weeks already. Let it go.

 

Fair post and you to seem like a knowledgeable poster as well.:thumbsup

I said those things to point out the fact that going into the fight many people actually saw and believed it to be true. Many thought that Pac would simply overwhelm PBF with angles workrate and speed saying he had the superior footwork and speed. I tried telling them that PBF had the better footwork and it wasn't going to be that easy and that workrate could be neutralized by timely counters movement and a jab to disrupt rhythm.

I bring up JMM because mostly because JMM is a thinking man's fighter above all, like PBF. He uses educated footwork taking small steps at the right time to confuse and frustrate Pac. I knew that if JMM could employ this tactic to Pac then PBF would do it is well and the PBF-Pac fight was won on that.:deal I also added the fact that PBF is bigger faster more athletic with better reflexes and defense to the mix and it was a no brainer as to who would win.

Lastly we can respectfully agree to disagree about the fight back in 2010. I come from the belief that offense sells tickets but defense wins championships give me the elite boxer over the elite fighter any day of the week. The 2009 version of Pac was actually an easier match up for PBF than this version. Simply because Pac was even more limited more reckless and more one-dimensional back then. He became a better boxer counter puncher with better defense later in his career than he was at that time.

 

I can't argue with that.

 

I don't know where you are getting the me being a Pacquiao fan in the same regards as the type of fans you are eluding to. I like Pac as a fighter, just like i like Floyd as a fighter, but, I don't go over the top into the "fanboy" or "hater" territory that people do and get accused of on here.

At the end of the day, I am an adult and I don't really see the point in getting overly emotionally involved in another human being that I have never met.

I love the sport. I only like and admire the fighter's.

 

Manny is an ATG but yes people, he was hyped beyond belief that it amazes me even today. And no the outcome wouldn't of been any different 5 years ago as Manny back then still needed a guy to stand in front of him and exchange with him to be optimum. This was present in the third JMM fight. People for some reason never take into account Floyd is 38 years old and it shows clearly to anyone who's watched him fight.

 

Manny is a great little fighter

 

:deal