Poll: Did the heat KO Sugar Ray in the Maxim fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by William Walker, Jul 29, 2021.


Did the heat KO Sugar Ray?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    85.0%

  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
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  1. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not a mystery to me. I just wanted to see how many think the heat KO'd Ray vs. how many don't.
     
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    #16
    Jel likes this.
  2. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This.

    One of the first casualties.
     
    Dubblechin, Jul 30, 2021
    Dubblechin, Jul 30, 2021
    #17
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Global Warming is the P4P king!
     
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    #18
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  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So Ray was as feeble as an old man who wasn’t a trained, conditioned athlete?

    I guess maybe he isn’t the GOAT then.
     
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    #19
  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Let's go and ask some flat earthers. Yep, tragically, those people exist.
     
    Jel, Jul 30, 2021
    Jel, Jul 30, 2021
    #20
  6. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Asking people's opinions to get a statistic is not idiotic.

    And why do you read so many of my threads if you know they will be idiotic?
     
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    #21
  7. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There's a difference though. Do I think that the heat KO'd Ray is a mystery? No way. But obviously it's not as black-and-white as you or I think, cuz if you will look at the poll, 14 people said yes, and 2 said no. While vastly outnumbered, some disagree, so it is worth discussing.
    Everyone knows that the earth is round.
     
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    #22
  8. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In response to your comparison to the Rumble in the Jungle, Foreman landed 194 punches to Ali's 118. So even though Foreman was out-throwing Ali, Ali was still throwing and landing a lot of punches on Foreman, something Maxim wasn't doing. Ali hurt Foreman a couple of times before round 8 when he knocked him out. Maxim never hurt Robinson and he rarely touched him. Now we all know Robinson threw infinitely more punches than Maxim. Now, if Ali in his fight with George had thrown say 18 punches to George's 194, George would be ahead in round 8. He already was, but with those fabricated numbers of mine, it would be a far greater lead. If George had just collapsed from exhaustion at the end of the 8th, but not from anything Ali threw, and the decision went to Ali, how would you view Ali? Probably a paper champion, right?
    I can see where you're coming from that Robinson should have came prepared to go 15 the way Maxim did. Boxing is an endurance contest. But it's not about enduring heat, it's about enduring punches. Ray had no punches to endure as he was nearly never on the receiving end of any.
    Also, liken stopping a fight due to heat exhaustion to stopping a fight due to a headbutt. Many fights have been stopped when a guy couldn't continue due to a bad cut from a headbutt. But also in many of those cases, that same guy still wins the fight cuz he was ahead at the time of the headbutt. How is this any different? Ray should've won cuz he was ahead.
     
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    #23
  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I’d disagree with you on a couple of accounts:

    I thought Maxim clearly hurt Robinson and roughed him up pretty good in the 13th. I watched it again and that was clearly the case. Robinson was fading and Maxim sensed it and turned it up and had him on wobbly legs from punches … and also worked over the body pretty good.

    The fight was stopped because Ray was out on his feet. His body was unresponsive. Joey weathered the heat better but he also took anything Robinson threw at him and kept plugging away. When he came on, Ray did not weather what Maxim put on him.

    I’ve been in the corner at a card fought in the middle of an ice storm in a building with no heat. I’ve been in the corner at a card in Mississippi fought outdoors on an outdoor parking lot in 100-plus degree heat in July where every step you could feel a burn on through you shoes on your feet.

    A fighter has to be better than the guy he’s fighting IN THE ELEMENTS under which he is fighting the guy. There have been fights in windy rainstorms where both men are constantly trying to turn the other so the rain is in his eyes. There was a heavyweight championship fight interrupted by a buffoon on a hang glider crashing in the ring — if he landed on one of the guys and injured him, yes, that’s what impacted the fight, but it was merely an interruption and one guy (Holyfield) kept his focus better than the other.

    You think John L Sullivan didn’t suffer going 70-plus rounds with Jake Kilrain in the Mississippi sun? But nobody says Jake lost because of it.

    Maxim won the fight as it was contested and that’s all that matters. He stopped Ray Robinson.
     
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    #24
  10. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm gonna have to watch round 13 again. I watched it twice and never saw Maxim hurt Robinson.

    I still don't agree with you Saintpat, but you have an argument that has been difficult for me to combat. I'm going to have to concede to you on this.

    As for Sullivan-Kilrain, I'm not familiar with it.
     
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    William Walker, Jul 30, 2021
    #25
  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The last bare-knuckle heavyweight championship fight.

    This is a good read on it: https://www.paulbeston.com/blog/sullivan-v-kilrain-july-8-1889-last-bare-knuckle-boxing-match
     
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    Saintpat, Jul 30, 2021
    #26
    William Walker likes this.
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