POLL. In which fight did you feel Frazier was at his optimal peak?

Ellis, Chuvalo, Manuel Ramos and Bob Foster were Joe's peak perfomances.

I'd argue that he was physically prime for Ali in the FOTC at 205.5 lbs, but was not mentally prime against Ali because he didn't fight the smartest fight even though he won. Ali's genius was making Frazier as mad as hell and taking him off his game as much as he could in the pre-FOTC interviews. Joe loaded up and missed quite a few left hooks trying to see if he could KO Ali, instead of tactically throwing hooks to the body and head from both arms, using his right hand as well.

Frazier was never at his prime or at his best against George Foreman. The evidence was clear from his bout against Ron Stander where he didn't look impressive at all. If Joe treated Foreman the same way he treated Ali, but boxed with his normal pressure, he KO's Foreman inside 10 rounds. Almost everyone on this Foreman concludes that Foreman beats Frazier no matter what the circumstances are. I don't think that's accurate because Foreman never fought the same fighter that took Ali to the distance and who also KO'd several of the top contenders of his time. Foreman tires after the middle rounds, and it's not unreasonable that a prime Frazier survives Foreman's early onslaught and takes him out in the later rounds.

 

I think this version of Frazier or just before the FOTC would take Foreman out before the bell for round 10. Foreman wouldn't be able to KO a FOTC or earlier version of Frazier inside two rounds. I won't deny that FOTC or prime Frazier gets knocked down once or twice against Foreman in the early rounds. The difference from 1973 Frazier is that the FOTC version was much harder to hit, better conditioned, and a sharper puncher at his prime weight.

When Foreman starts to tire in the middle rounds, Frazier is starting to warm up. There's no reason not to believe a prime Frazier would be there in the middle rounds doubling up his hook and landing body shots against Foreman.

 

No, of course Joe was shot,way past his prime when he met Foreman,he was 29 ,how old was Ali when he fought Frazier in FOTC? :hey

 

Frazier was NOT to be denied on March 8,1971...

 

I don't make much of it because he still got knocked out and won't have that knowledge the first time they fight.

Frazier will always come forward, eat shots, then start becoming more active, and wear his opponent down. 1973 or 1970, doesn't matter. Foreman destroys him early.

 

This marks the first time I've heard Foreman described as "clever", and I've followed big George's career from the Olympic, flag-waving days onward.

 

Disagree with you ChrisPontius. The evidence of their fighting careers will always support a George Foreman KO of Frazier. I'm not denying that.

However, I don't believe Foreman would have been able to wipe the floor with the Joe Frazier of 1967 - 1969. In fact, this version of Frazier, in peak physical performance would give George Foreman one heck of a battle. I'd certainly bet on him to make it past the second round against Foreman and land some concerted shots to the body. He lasted five rounds practically shot in the 1976 rematch, using almost the same fight plan he exuded against George Chuvalo, more circling, jabbing and counterpunching.

You can't deny that Foreman had help from Mercante the first time around, because the pushing, shoving, holding and hitting underneath are illegal tactics. I think Mercante wanted to keep himself from being the deciding factor in the fight letting Foreman and Frazier slug it out. In the process, he ignored explicit rules of the sport which don't allow Foremans tactics.

There's a monumental difference between the fighter who showed up to Jamaica in 1973 and the prime version that was the dominant champion of the late 1960's.

 

Yep, but that difference certainly is NOT that he was able to box smart like he did in '76. He was always a head-on swarmer back then. And got hit plenty of times early by every opponent.

 

slipping and blocking? ring generalship? Frazier has never been known for this.

 

ellis and foster. against foster he just had that animal about him.. its like he was insulted that theyd put foster in with him..

 

He didn't always walk straight into his opponents head on, hands low like he did against Foreman in 1973. Frazier was decent at cutting off the ring and using angles to land body shots. I will agree with you that his mentality from the 1960's was pressure, pressure and more pressure. What's missing is that Joe could counter punch and took steps back in order to attack from different angles.

 

The Joe Frazier who KO'd both "Ellis & Foster" in 1970 was PEAKED!! Joe Frazier was still riding that wave against Ali in '71..... By '72, Frazier was putting on some weight and looking just for "Money" fights.....

MR.BILL:hey

 

Yes Chris. I think most of us accept Frazier would never be able to take Foreman's power while he had a hole in his arse. The earlier version may have had more success bobbing and weaving his way in, perhaps keeping even lower, but his penchant for almost enjoying being hit is his ultimate downfall vs. a puncher with George's size and power. One Foreman blow would turn the momentum in his favour. The rest is a repeat of Jamaica.


Meanwhile, I think Joe gives any boxer (Ali, Holmes et al) kittens and has a good shout of beating them on their very best night.

 

FOTC, no doubt.

Quarry, Chuvalo, Ellis and Foster were all impressive performances. But in none of these Frazier had to dig deep.

In the FOTC, Joe had to dig deep, really deep, to pull out the win. And that is what separates the FOTC from the other impressive Frazier wins.