POll: Kelly Pavlik vs Alan Minter

I wouldn't be particularly surprised at a KO that early given how sloppy Minter could be; but I'd expect him to have the common sense to stay on the back foot and just try and pop KP with counters, which is a fairly promising game-plan (and one which I think Minter is good enough to employ with a degree of success). It's just a question of how long it takes Pavlik to time him for the right hand. Haven't seen enough of Minter against a range of opposition to make that call. Confident Pavlik beats him though.

 

He looks an easy 2 inches taller than the 5'9 Hagler in that clip.

 

You can compare them in the staredown in that clip incidentally.Minter is easily taller.More than tall enough for the height difference to only be a slight advantage and not a dealbreaker.

Just a matter of how long he will take to time him with the right?.I'd wager at least twice as long as it would take the man with the better footwork to time him with the left.

Minter killed Jacopucci, a sercviceable fighter a notch below, with a similar straight-line standup boxing style to Pavlik if you want to play the pick a specific flaw out from one fight and transpose it to assumed sucess for another game.It's about as close as comparing Vito or Hagler to Pav after all.

I'm not really the biggest fan of Minter either, but he's a fighter i always get the feeling is judged by many on one or two fights, and comes of unfairly downgraded for it.His toughness, very good power and ability to dictate exchanges off the backfoot would be too much for what i've seen of Pavlik so far.Then again, ai wouldn't expect anyone who started a Monzon vs Pavlik thread to come close to agreeing.It's all good.

 

How do you see Pavlik/Martinez going?

 

not entirely sure to be honest.

Martinez is a fighter i quite like, but don't rate that highly.He thinks his upperbodymovement is cuter than it really is and doesn't impose himself nearly enough offensively.

I'd question his chin, strength, offensive output and will to really impose his boxing on a big middle like Pavlik.He often strikes me as someone who is fighting with a half a mind on just surviving and getting through the rounds.Stepping up in weight against a big stalking puncher i could easily see him not throwing enough punches, taking little risks and just doing enough to be reasonably competitive and go the distance.

On the other hand, he does have the sneakiness, movement and safety-first approach to make Pavlik look ponderous.I think ideally he's the kind of fighter Kelly should fight when active and in good form.That way he has the best chance of getting in some good shots early and instilling some doubt in his mind....otherwise i can see him making him look really bad and coming into the fight as it goes on.

IF Martinez chin holds up early, gun to head i'd go with Pavlik grinding out an unimpressive toiling decision win, but as is often the case with two fighters i don't have a great deal of faith in, i would hardly be shocked if he ended up proving limited enough in dealing with movers, that he lost a 2-4'ish point decision.


I don't think Martinez is that comprable to Minter btw.He's much more of a safety-first counterpunching spoiler.Some similarities in general technique of course, but Minter was much more imposing and offensively dangerous.That straight left down the pipe was very heavy handed and dangerous if you didn't have a jaw like Vito or Marv.

 

Well, I thought there was some significance to it. Presumably, you're not predicting Minter to go in there with the intention of blowing Pavlik out, so his strength/power/whatever will be a secondary fighter. Given that he is the smaller guy and not someone who leads all that much at the best of times, you'd have thought that a significant part of the fight would hinge on how effectively Minter could catch Pavlik on the way in or in return. That's pretty much how Martinez will be looking to fight. Their defences also seem similar; both rely on range control and getting away faster than their opponent can get off rather than blocking, and actually they come across quite sloppy in that department. So whether or not you see a) Pavlik being able to close the distance and impose himself against the fleeter Martinez and b) Martinez being able to take away Pavlik's tools and counter will have a bearing on this fight.

I think it would be inconsistent to call a lopsided Minter win here but then to suggest that Pavlik would probably beat Martinez, gulfs in class aside.

I just don't see Minter avoiding that big, long, consistent jab without a great defence. Too hittable.

 

What inconsistency is there? One fighter is bigger, stronger, a lot more powerful and likely a lot more durable at the weight, while posessing certain tools that the other didn't have that would aid him in dealing with the proposed opponent's strengths moreso than the fighter you're attempting to compare with him. Stylistically Martinez seems decent enough fit to upset Pavlik if he had the physical tools and secondary aspects of his game to back it up. However, considering he's likely too lacking in the aforementioned aspects, it's not inconsistent to call a close Pavlik win over him while favoring Minter over Pavlik.

Also, what's with the "gulfs in class aside" statement? I'd figure that would make a pretty determined difference along with the physical gulf between the two. That would be similar to saying it's inconsistent to favor Whitaker over Tszyu while using Tszyu's KO win over Judah as the benchmark, considering both were fast southpaws.

 

Wel i wouldn't be that surprised if Pavlik lost to Martinez, who isn't on Minter's level imo.A/B/C comparisons are never a trustworthy way to figure these things out.

Also it's not guaranteed Minter wouldn't fight aggressively against Pavlik.He's not a great ring general, certainly not a cautious one and he's very good on the front foot offensively.The fight could very well be an entertaining shootout where mInter would be trying to close the gap and unload with his shorter combinations inside Pavlik's jab.


I ust can't see where Pavlik would have the advantages needed here unless Minter gets badly cut early perhaps.His height and reach advantages could make it tough at times, but the flaws Minter had, Pavlik has them to a greater extent....ie defence, upright-stance etc. and he's a better technical boxer-puncher, with quicker, more fluid hands who has a good chance at a knockout himself.Minter hits a lot harder than Taylor or old Hopkins imo.

 

As an aside, just looking at Minter in general here.I've always thought the first Vito fight was one of his leser performances against an other contender.Perhaps a bit of first world title fight nerves and of course Vito's unorthox mauling style could make anyone look awkward.

I don't think it's the best fight to judge him by, though he adjusted very well(like Hagler) in the rematch.Minter was not a great fighter, but i tend to think he would be held in better regard if stuff like the Finnegan, Licata, Tonna fights and other earlier stuff against solid contenders was more widely available.He could be a lot smoother than he looked against Vito, the seconf Finnegan in particular-with both fighters at peak-was a really nice fluid technical fight.