Poll - Who would win? Sonny Liston 1959 or Oleksandr Usyk 2022?

I'll be honest, your profiles are so similar I thought you were the same person till now lol

 

There were 0 notable southpaws in Holmes first career either. Can't fight 'em in they're not there.

 

You mean their avatars?

 

Liston wasn’t a weight bully in so far as mindfully selecting only smaller opponents.

Sonny simply fought the opponents that had to be fought - be they big or small.

Take two of the bigger guys - Valdez and Williams. Liston didn’t just beat them, he creamed them.

Folley might’ve been in and round 200 lbs, but he was a very good fighter - and Liston didn’t just beat him - he cleaned his clock in just 3 rounds

A stat that at least means something to me is that if you average the required rounds for victory based on the opponents listed for both Liston and Usyk in a previous post - over 7 fights, Liston averaged just 3.7 rounds vs Usyk’s, over 9 fights, average of 9.8 rounds.

You can rate their quality how you like but Liston also fought and defeated some bigger men later in his career when he was much older, past prime.

Durable, young, Henry Clark, 6’3” and 215 lbs, wasn’t exactly fodder and Liston stopped him in impressive fashion.

As far as successfully dealing with an expressly mobile and evasive fighter, we have the Machen fight over 12 FULL rounds.

Machen looked to survive, of course Usyk wouldn’t - he would offer more offensively, so Liston would have to contend with that. But there are pros and cons there.

I believe Usyk, by actually be more inclined toward fighting and engaging would be more accessible for Liston, especially in regards to the body.

Liston’s attention to the body was standard, he wouldn’t need to know or believe that Olek might be perhaps more vulnerable in that area - it will get the usual treatment anyway, possibly more if Liston decides it to be the more wise strategy.

For all his evasiveness, Olek didn’t come through unscathed in both AJ fights. Olek took some but upheld an excellent beard.

AJ did do a bit better the second time around too, not least for some greater attention to the body - having a notable affect on Olek, but it was too little too late.

And I’ll just repeat, imo, atop his being better skilled than an AJ, Liston won’t supplement Olek’s strategy and approach by flagging badly in the later rounds - a failing among the bigger men that has played its part in Olek’s successes.

 

....similar features but longer hair....

Don’t mind me. Carry on.

 

Reading this thread I wonder if I clicked the worng link and I landed in the General Forum because some posts are so pro Usyk that they are already crossing into fanboy territory.

I mean, Usyk is an OK fighter, and sure he has a chance versus Liston, maybe a very good chance.... but some posts here are like Usyk is going to steamroll a Liston who is just a notch above bum of the month.

 

You should've seen the forum when Fury beat Wilder the first time.

 

These days around here you often wonder how Joe Louis, Sonny Liston or Floyd Patterson ever won a fight in their careers.

 

Usyk befuddles Liston and shatters his glass jaw in the late rounds

 

AJ though is quite possibly a bigger puncher than Liston though. He's been kayoing much much bigger men than Liston on a consistent basis. And I don't recall Usyk winning his cruiserweight fights because all his opponents ran out of gas. When did Liston fight someone with Usyk's work rate?

 

Believe it or not you're not the first person to say this.

 

I picked Uysk but in no way do I believe he would steamroll Liston. If fact, I don't think there are many that could or would and I don't believe for a second that the Ali KO in their 2nd fight was legit.

Regarding the Uysk fight, it's the matchup that I don't like for Liston. I did a **** pour job explaining that yesterday and don't want to open that can of worms again but as bad of a matchup Uysk is for Liston, there are guys like Frazier that I think would beat Uysk but couldn't beat Liston.

Guys like Frazier or Tyson that fought with a high intensity and threw more looping shots and body work would be an issue for Uysk but conventional guys that relied on the jab to set up their offense would struggle with Uysk's constant feighting, footwork and southpaw parrying. I see a UD for Uysk who has made a career out of game planning for specific opponents and taking away their strength. By no means is he unbeatable and I think a prime Tyson would be a big issue for him as would a relentless Joe Frazier. The irony is, I think Liston would beat both Frazier and Tyson because he had the physical Strength to back them up which would make them ineffective. It's the matchup I don't like. Not the fighter. Liston was great.

 

Dipping the gloves in monsel won’t even help Liston.

Olek now has those groovy Bono sunglasses that he’ll wear during the fight. Think.

Ring IQ = 11 out of 10.

 

Fair points.

However, this is the 2022, 220 lb HW version of Usyk who has been prescribed for this match up.

Not as fast or as mobile as CW Usyk. And the guys Olek fought at CW weren’t Liston either.

I was obviously talking about Olek’s successes against the SHWs and the significant feature of those SHWs notably slowing down during the course of a fight.

In fact, the most celebrated HW victories for Uysk were against the same opponent, Joshua X 2,, when the difference in stamina was most notable and important.

I referenced Machen as somewhat comparable in terms of his speed, mobility and general evasiveness.

But true, work rate includes offensive output, and that is an additional component that Liston would be dealing with vs Usyk, a feature that I addressed in my previous post.