Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, May 15, 2019.
Frazier couldn`t take Foreman`s power and George punched harder than Joe.
Morrison couldn`t have won that way v a prime Foreman.
They’ll both get their shots at Foreman in their own threads.
Thanks...this was really helpful and informative
George did admit to being intimidated by Sonny sparring. In a big way.
Prime Larry would have been dropped by George but George couldn't have handled what Larry was after that (excluding his six-years-past-his-prime fight against Tyson). Look what happened to Shavers...does anyone really think Foreman could hit Larry harder than Shavers? Ali sure didn't.
Of course, George is a much greater fighter than Earnie, but still. Foreman hated the movers...look at how Shavers and Cooney looked past the tenth round or so. Zombies. That would have been George.
As far as 60s Ali, fugeddaboutit. Combinations making George hear bells and bats that aren't there, with Bundini rightfully bellowing "ALL NIGHT LONG!" Remember how bad George looked in Zaire? Double that in the 60s. I can even see the flurry that would put Foreman down for the first time, absolute poetry in motion my friends.....
Yeah but that was old Foreman who said that wasn't it? Most of the things that he said you can't take seriously. He also said that he was so scared of Frazier that his knees were shaking during the staredown where to everyone else it looked like Foreman just wanted to rip Joe's head off.
I'm assuming that the early 70's was his prime. Oddly, I favor most over him. Not Marciano or Dempsey mind you but most of the rest.
See, it could be said that coming up for a prime for George is challenging. If he was so great in the 70s...well, he defended the title twice, got his butt kicked twice, over and out. When he came back, he beat a bunch of tomatoes and more than held his own against the a three time (was it three or four?) champion. He then knocked cold the guy who beat the three time champion. He upped the quality of his competition after winning the title, at least in part due to governing body pressure, and still did pretty good, especially his age.
So, was it really the Frazier Norton Foreman who was at his prime? Maybe, just maybe a tougher call than at first sight.
I'm not seeing the Holmes pick to be honest. Holmes wasn't all that good when he was hurt, and tended to fire back when hurt instead of hold on. That isn't going to work with Foreman. He'll be caught, and recuperative powers or not, you better hold on or stall or you're not making it out of the round.
If he didn't fire back Witherspoon and Snipes and Shavers would have creamed him. It's what made him a great champion.
Holmes was great at tying people up. No offense, are you sure you thought your post out before you wrote it? Everything you wrote points toward a Holmes victory. George hated getting hit...Holmes would be hitting him a lot. George hated backing up, Holmes could most certainly back him up (think of the right hand that floored Cooney and knocked Evangelista unconscious, the uppercut Weaver, the jab that knocked down Ocasio).
I LOVE both George and Larry. But there really isn't a scenario I see where George wins that fight. Holmes in 1979 was better than Jimmy Young ever was, and could hit significantly harder.
Now, if we're talking 90s Foreman and Holmes, that's where perhaps the better and more interesting arguments could be made. In fact, that kind of scenario I could see George perhaps outpointing Larry, sure.
You mention him firing back against Shavers, Snipes and Witherspoon .. which is the opposite of tying people up as I just illustrated. Then you say, I have it all wrong, and Holmes was great at tying people up? What? Which fights are you thinking of where Holmes was great at tying people up? Now Holmes is backing up Foreman? Are you being serious here? Ummmmm yeah, not seeing what you're seeing.
Totally agree. And don't forget that George had a pretty soft schedule up to Frazier.
I would say he was definitely more one-dimensional the first time around. It was a good dimension, but how adaptable was it and how could he adjust are two questions that were not answered to his benefit against Ali and Young.
I read that Foreman even copied Liston`s mean aloof persona and that Liston had the strength to push Foreman back in their sparring sessions.