POLL: Who would you favor against Frazier?

Johnson had a great right uppercut which would find a home on the bobbing Frazier.Then again, throwing the punch would leave him vulnerable to Joe's hook.

 

You mean younger as in when he was 10 years old?

 

FOTC Frazier beats everybody, and I mean everybody.

Pre and post FOTC Frazier:

Frazier ko 11 Johnson

" " kayo by 12 by 60s Ali (great fight, but Ali was too fast, accurate, and danced too much for Joe)

kayo by 14 Holmes (would be a terrific fight on par with FOTC. Again, the uppercut and jab are the keys here)

kayo by Louis 9 (Louis knew all about relentlessness, and packed a punch not super far from Foreman...and overall more accurate)

decisions Holyfield (in an incredible fight where Holy would probably get dropped)

decisions Wlad in 15 (though taking a bad beating and getting his face all swoll up)

kayo by 4 Lewis (he'd make it too easy for LL with his style)

Bowe gets rocked, but Joe would have been starched by the uppercut, which might have been as powerful as Big George's. kayo by 7 rounds.

 

My picks for whom I would favour vs. Joe Frazier (note, I have qualified this, as well as added what I believe is their best version, as that is sometimes subjective. In none do I have 100% (i.e. 10 out of 10 times they win)
):
Ali (Cleveland Williams version)- at his best he should be able to nip past FOC Frazier, but it will be close. He was not the same Ali when they first fought, although still great. These two will always run each other close. I would say I am 80% in favour of Ali here.

Mike Tyson (Michael Spinks version) - best version of Tyson starts too fast for Joe, and delivers a lot of damage in a short amount of time. They are similar size and build really, as Frazier, from a different era, would likely have been a few pound heavier in the 80s, and vice versa for Mike. Tyson to my eyes is much faster and a fine combination puncher, as well as being a front loaded fighter, so most dangerous when Joe is at his most vulnerable. Caveats of course being that if Joe can get right on top of Tyson, he is a superb infighter, Tyson would not be as good at pushing him off as Foreman was in all likelihood. Mike actually would want him to be more arms length. If the fight goes long, Joe should have a better chance, but he would likely have soaked up a lot of damage too, so I would still lean towards Tyson, as Frazier's indomitable will and stamina may not server him as well here. Tyson, 90% sure.
Riddick Bowe (Holyfield I version): This one I am least sure about, in fact I almost went back and changed my vote ;-) I believe Bowe at his best was too big and too tough to be beaten by Frazier, as Joe would close the distance only to find a fighter who was more than happy to fight inside, and was also very good at it. Additionally, at range, Bowe would dominate, but I anticipate this to close quarters quickly as Bowe would generally accommodate those who wished to brawl. I am saying 51% in favour of Bowe, purely because if they are standing toe to toe, he is a bigger man. He would take tremendous punishment as well, I see it being a 12 round decision for Bowe, or a 15 round SD for Joe. Apologies for the waffling, it is hard to pick and Joe's pedigree is so much greater, but this is H2H.

Lennox Lewis: ( unsure with version, he changed significantly under Steward, let us say the version who fought Golota looked great, and he also looked outstanding in Raman II, after lowering the bar for himself significantly in match I ) Lewis is much bigger than Frazier, even a naturally bigger man than Bowe in both breadth and height. Also appeared to be tremendously physically strong, view his wrestling/infighting/roughhousing with Vitali, even at the end of his career. Lewis's susceptibility to right hands will not be an issue here, as most right hands from Joe were to the body, not the chin, and it is not really what he is known for. Stature wise, Frazier is close to Tua, although much lighter. He would bring a good deal more effort/activity, and I don't see Lennox stopping him because he would be highly unlikely to allow himself to go all out in a slugfest. I believe we might be in for a lot of jabbing, and either clinching or pushing off Frazier. Lennox does have a great right uppercut, which is Joe's kryptonite, but I don't see him doing any more than is necessary to win, he was kind of like that, doing only as much as he had to in many cases. Lewis by decision, 90% certain. I would also allow for a few knockdowns as he might well catch Joe, but he would not keep him down.

Wlad Klitschko: ( somewhere between Rahman and Peter II ): I would love to pick against Wlad, as I didn't enjoy watching him fight, as he had a combination of less than stellar challengers, and a later career reluctance to engage that while it was understandable, made him a bit boring to watch. He had heart though, despite what his critics said, and was always in shape. Joe was just too small, stature wise, to do anything here. He would probably have had a similar experience to what Alexander Povetkin had, they are not identical as fighters, but I can see Wlad fighting that way against Joe, and while Joe was much more determined and probably a bit faster than Pov, he was even smaller. would not expect him to stop Joe, he has the power, but not the style to apply it with the rigour that would be needed as this is not someone you beat with 1, or 2 knockdowns. Jabs, 1-2s (mostly jabs though), and clinches would be the dominant feature. On the inside WK should be strong enough to literally just grab Joe and hold him, as he was at least 40 lbs heavier, and it was all muscle. My best guess is 95% WK by decision, very wide decision, in a fight that nobody would ever want to see again. I wish I could say otherwise.

NB. I don't see JF beating the remaining 4 100% of the time, either, but I would favour him in those matchups.

 

I would favor Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, and Riddick Bowe (if he shows up in tip top shape) to all beat Frazier.

I think Frazier would clean out everyone else on this list if he was in top shape, but the out of shape Frazier they got hammered by Foreman twice would lose to Lennox, Holmes, and Holyfield, and Tyson.

 

I chose

Jack Johnson
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis

Some others are 50/50
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Joe Louis

 

Except if he's looking at the 2nd Ali fight that is already a diminished Frazier. Things that worked then might not against a peak version.

 

Louis, Lennox and Ali and the last one is very close. Also Liston who's not on the list, maybe Tyson. He beats everyone else.

 

Ali- 1967 Ali would be a favourite but it would always be a close fight.

Tyson- Tyson has faster hands and a bigger right hand. Tyson finishes Joe early.

Lewis- should be able to box him and catch him with occasional rights. If Lewis decides to go all Foreman on him, he could run into left hook and Frazier could wear him down with hooks to the body. Still Lewis is a 70-30 favourite.

Wlad- Wlad should hug and grab his way to a decision unless he trades. Then it could be a Brewster situation. Wlad 60-40 favourite.

Frazier is a stylistic nightmare for Holmes IMO, and i believe Joe beats him. Joe also outworks Holyfield for a close decision.

 

Tyson and Bowe were the only two I could pick in good conscience. The others were too good of boxers, and Frazier had taking their styles apart down to an exact science.

 

Ali,Lewis and Tyson.
Picking Holmes over Frazier h2h is a joke

 

i agree. as great as holmes was he's born to lose 2 joe

 

Bowe and Wladimir < 50% is laughable. People don´t want to understand that Fraziers attrition style was a blue print against boxers that couldn´t whack, absolutely acclaimed by Alis style. You don´t need to be Foreman to stagger him. Riddick Bowe would put a horrible beating on him.

 

As far as Tyson...what does Tyson do when he floors Joe and watches him get up, ready to go again? What happens if Joe floors Mike?

I like Mike in the early rounds. In the later rounds, Mike gets stopped hard imo.