Post-prison Mike with the best trainers and team possible, how far does he go?

Not very far.

Tyson was already a shell of his former self mentally after the Douglas loss, and prison kicked him while he was down.

The raw strength, hand speed, and style were still there, but the great timing, accuracy, and most importantly killer instinct were on life support. He could occasionally bomb out the odd contender here and there like Nielson, but he was pretty much done at the elite level (especially after the Holyfield beatings).

He was never going to beat Holyfield or Lewis post prison no matter what he did or which elite trainers were in his corner. His desire just wasn't there and that's more important than all the physical factors (declining speed, gas tank, technique, etc). The only elite fighters from this time period he'd have a chance of beating were Moorer (puncher's chance), or Foreman (might've been too slow for Tyson, but a very dangerous matchup). I doubt he could beat Chris Byrd or John Ruiz given their spoiling tactics. David Tua would've knocked Tyson out. So the chances of him regaining a belt were very, very slim and he certainly wouldn't hold onto it for long or become undisputed again.

 

I don't see any version of Tua beating Tyson if I'm being honest.

 

He did alright post-prison but he ran into another great fighter in Evander Holyfield, who still had enough left to beat him.

 

Agreed with most except Tyson's foot speed had declined. When you are a 5'10 dude fighting dudes who are 6'5, you need foot speed. Tyson showed some foot speed vs Bruno in 96 but that is probably the last time he showed it. By 1999, his feet were about as quick as Rocky Marciano. No way could Tyson beat a talented tall heavyweight at that age.

I actually think Lewis-Tyson is a 60-40 fight in favour of Lewis if the fight happens in 95 or 96. This version of Lewis could be brilliant at times but was also unsure of himself at other times. Tyson still had enough foot speed to close the distance vs Lewis.

Given that Lewis took 8 rounds to get rid of a completely shot overweight Tyson in 2002, i can see Tyson going the distance vs Lewis in 96. Lewis was always mentally going to be cautious vs Tyson.

I also think Tyson in 95 or 96 or even 97 would easily beat Moorer. I like Moorer and he is often underrated. But Moorer was not especially quick footed and his defensive skills were average. Moorer would stand in front of Tyson and i think even a diminished 95-97 Tyson beats Moorer.

I see Tua and Ibeabuchi beating post prison Tyson. Vitali would easily beat the late 90's/early 2000's version of Tyson. Holyfield obviously beats any post prison Tyson. Mercer beats post jail Tyson too.

I do think Tyson stops Briggs. And he obviously stopped Golota. Byrd decisions Tyson. Sanders i am unsure of.

 

Tyson would be fighting fire with fire against a younger, more durable, high stamina volume puncher who could give a rhinoceros a headache with his hook.

Prime Tyson? Sure. Tyson either stops him late or wins a convincing decision in a thrilling slug fest with his superior technique, defense, head movement, angle shifts, and 2 fisted combinations.

Tyson at any point past Holyfield was a head hunter with a 4-6 round gas tank, leaky, defense, slower, heavier, and trying to end things with one big hit. He'd fade and become food for Tua. Hell I don't even know if Tyson from the Holyfield fights would win. He'd be in a lot of pain and would take a lot of punishment either way and would have to work for it. Get the image of Tyson stunning crowds weaving under punches with perfect timing, discipline, fundamentals, and detonating with crisp hand speed and perfect foot positioning from the 80's. That guy didn't exist after prison. And his heart wasn't in it anymore. And if Tua came to win and was in good shape, he'd test Tyson's heart more than almost anyone else in the 90's. Tyson beat approximately zero opponents as dangerous as Tua during this decade, let alone someone his own size with some stylistic similarities which would make things even worse.

1) On what planet did Tyson's 90's foot speed look the same as the 80's?

2) looking faster than the muscle bound and heavy Bruno is only relatively impressive because of the height difference. Bruno wasn't a lumbering oaf, but he wasn't exactly fast.

3) I don't think any version of Tyson in the 90's beats Lewis outside of a puncher's chance. I do agree sometimes Lewis was unsure of himself and had to make style changes, but the safer bet would be Lewis imo. Tyson went 8 rounds due to a combination of starting to go into his shell and Lewis fighting cautiously until Emmanuel Stewart yelled at him to open up. Lewis didn't merely pound on Tyson's skull with flush bombs round after round, but I give Tyson credit for going out on his shield.

4) Sanders is interesting, I'd have to think about that one. I can't remember, did Tyson fight any southpaws at the world level? Even a fringe contender would give us some clues.

 

He could still beat Holyfield if he trained properly and had Rooney in his corner.

 

1) Tyson's footspeed post prison was considerably slower than it was in the 80's. I merely said he showed flashes of his footspeed in 95-96. Flashes, not the real deal.

2) i can agree with this

3) I do think 91-92 Tyson beats 91-92 Lewis. Post prison? I agree he has a punchers chance and Lewis is the correct bet. That being said, Tyson's team made a mistake in picking Holyfield over Lewis.

4) Yes, Tyson never fought any southpaws but i always felt Tyson had the right tools to beat southpaws. Tyson has the right hand and left hook and right uppercut all mastered - and these 3 punches are what seem to bother southpaws.

 

Oh yeah I do agree that post-Holyfield Tyson loses, but 90s Tyson until Holyfield II would have won imo, at that point he was still a class above Tua as a fighter. Even faded Tyson was superior to Tua in every way possible, his cardio was the real issue at that point, and I think people trust way too much on Tua's chin, nobody he fought with was even close to Tyson as a puncher aside from Lewis, who just played it safe and jabbed at range for the most part.

 

I don't believe he was, overstated and just an excuse, he couldn't carry Fury's jockstrap in that regard.

 

Tua would have stopped Tyson in the mid 90's.

 

In my opinion, Tyson was just as fast in 1997 as he was in 1987. He was also just as dynamic, but his reflexes were slower and his timing was noticeably worse. The problem was that Tyson quickly lost strength after prison, becoming noticeably slower after just three rounds and under significant stress. In his first career, he was a more well-rounded fighter. What influenced this? Whatever the reason, even the best trainer won't help you if your time has passed due to age, lifestyle, personal problems, lack of motivation, or illness

 

Just fine until he had to fight Holyfield.

 

Holyfield, Botha, Danny Williams, Lennox Lewis and Kevin McBride