Post your pound for pound list for the start of 2015

Bradley: I'm on the fence. He doesn't fight smart, has no punch, and always finds a way to almost lose. I think he'll have a lot of chances now that he can fight the rest of 147 aside from Manny ad JMM. I can't say how he'd do against Khan, Garcia, Porter, Thurman, and Brook. He could be anywhere from #3-#7 at Welter. IMO he COULD beat any of those guys at 17, Floyd included, but WOULD he? Hard to say.

JMM: Has ZERO legit wins above 135 and very few down there. The Manny KO was ATG stuff, but...he was clearly on roids, it took him 40 rounds to find that shot (yes, there are sparring videos of him dropping lefties with it so it wasn't 'lucky' so much as it was 'fortuitous.' Clearly beaten by Bradley imo. Was getting beaten up by Manny and very close to getting stopped when he pulled out the shot. But to me it's telling that he immediately ruled out a 5th fight when it's what everybody wanted. It looks like HE thinks it was a lucky shot. Beating Alvarado isn't significant, especially when you go down in the process and it turns into a good fight. Alvarado, and I cannot stress this enough, is NOT A GOOD FIGHTER. Is JMM good? Yes. Is it the results of PED use...well let's just say there's more circumstantial evidence pointing to it than any other active fighter. Which top 10 welterweights would I pick him to beat? Guerrero, Chaves, Alexander, and Khan. I don't think he's even top 5 at the weight.

Stevenson: Dawson is his only quality win, and Dawson and Cloud were likely totally shot. The other guys shouldn't be rated with the exception of Fonfara and Bellew, who were low top 10 in a shallow division and not very good (wouldn't Hopkins beat them both?). Ducking a 49yr old man and Kovalev is not a good look, and it makes his lineal title insignificant. Dawson was coming off a beating where he was put down repeatedly and actually verbally quit in the middle of a round on his feet. That isn't how a champ behaves and it isn't how a fighter who isn't shot behaves and it isn't how ANY fighter behaves, amateur or pro. So while Dawson was the lineal champ, it was kind of meaningless because he had just lost to a guy who would have beaten him at any weight from 168-200. He had the title but he was shot and it was meaningless. I'm not just hating on Stevenson because he's a despicable human being who makes us all look bad in front of all the other species. If Stevenson picked up a win over Ward, Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal, or even Froch I would start thinking highly of his abilities. He has a weak chin though, and that will limit him. All the guys I listed could beat him at 175 and should be favored imo.

Walters: I think highly of his ability, I love watching him, but Darchinyan was blown up and has been shot for years, while Donaire was blown up and shot as well. Donaire hadn't been stopped, which is impressive, but Walters is huge at 126 and Donaire is small, shot, and a little bit old and unmotivated. I can't rate Walters high off those wins, but if he does Lomachenko, Mares, Gradovich, Russell, Selby, even Gonzalez (who I don't rate high) then I'll start rating him higher. IMHO he'd dominate most of those guys and he will. just not ready to consider him proven just yet.

Inoue: He's extremely impressive, has all the ballls, and he dominates when he fights. And he actively seeks out challenges, which is what I like to see. He has freakish power, great skill, and while his chin and stamina haven't truly been tested I think they will be against Gonzalez and Rigo. He has to be top 10 p4p.

M. Garcia: Can't rate because of inactivity, simple as that. When he comes back, I'll have him in the top 10 regardless of whether he fights a Salka-type guy, because he's already proven top 10 status in my opinion. He's a guy who I can't see losing to anybody in the surrounding divisions (Walters, Gamboa, and Lomachenko could be great tests if he stays at 130 though). He could destroy everybody at 135 once Crawford moves up. Just a total-package fighter and extremely intelligent.

D. Garcia: I struggle to rate him despite him being a Philly fighter and extremely like-able aside from the indoor sunglasses. Morales was small and old and tbh should not have given him that much trouble even though he was on steroids. Holt is just meh. The Khan win was spectacular, and it's a lucky punch that was NOT lucky because he had clearly planned it AND had been throwing it repeatedly. And he's knocked out Morales and Salka with it, so it's a tool he uses regularly and a good one. Maybe I'm bitter about the Matthysse fight. He got his eye fair and square, but I can't help thinking that if that eye was there Matthysse would have pulled it out. And he looked like shiit against Herrera. And then he seemed to lose his ballls and fight Salka. Has he slipped or something? Thing with Garcia is that there are so many fights at 140 for him: Peterson, Matthysse II, Broner, Provodnikov, Herrera II, Rios, Alvarado, even Vargas or Algieri. I hate to see him move up because his punch won't be the same at 147 and I don't think he'll be as successful. He's just really hard to rate imo.

Crawford: Prescott, Klimov, Burns, Gamboa, Beltran. Solid. Looks utterly dominant every time, which counts for a lot when looking at p4p. Burns should not have been the champ and was seemingly slipping (and not ever that great anyway), but beating Beltran afterward kind of legitimized the lineage. Gamboa was small and inactive, but he's undoubtedly a special fighter (with a bad chin), and Crawford put on a great show and showed he can adapt to a speedy and highly skilled fighter. Nobody at 135 would have a chance with him, and I'll favor him against anyone at 140 except Pacquiao (and I would definitely give him a great shot at beating Pac). I want to see if he can keep dominating at a new weight, and 140 has the fighters to test him. I'm pretty comfortable putting him in the top 10, because his size and skillset match up well with just about anybody.

Cotto: p4p is h2h. Your accomplishments at 140 over 5 years ago just can't count anymore. Who could you beat NOW, weight being equal and height being proportional? We know he can't beat Trout. We know he can't beat Lara. We know he can't beat Alvarez. We know he can't beat Floyd. I would put money on Cotto losing to ANY healthy top-10 fighter from 147-160. And it's been that way for over 5 years. He's been hanging on by cherrypicking opponents and taking money fights that nobody would criticize him for losing. Margarito and Pacquiao destroyed him and he isn't coming back or improving.

J. Gonzalez: He was getting stopped at 122. He got dropped by ab blown-up PDL at 126 (and lost). He's got decent wins over Hasegawa and Mares at 126, but Haseqawa gets stopped whenever he steps up and Mares was a lucky shot until proven otherwise. A 1-punch KO early in a fight is great but he didn't have time to establish that he was a better fighter than Mares. If it had happened later in the fight it would be different. It was impressive but I can't rate him p4p. I think he would lose to most guys in the 126 top 10. Great puncher, proportionally terrible chin. kind of cancel each other out and reduce him to ordinary status imo.

Lomachenko: Good work against a much larger/more experienced/chemically-enhanced Salido shows a lot, and dominating the speedy Russell also shows a lot. Agree he needs more wins to really show what he can do, but I think you'd have to favor him against any featherweight and he'd be even money if he moved up for Garcia or down for Rigo. I can't call him top 10 but he's right outside it imo.

 

Agreed, except for the idea of p4p being real. It is not real because the height, reach and weight differences are real, and in order to achieve the best form, a boxer needs to use every advantage he has.

To be honest, Bradley is in no way among the top 5 boxers in the world.

I'd say that these boxers have established themselves as 3 of the best in world (in order by weight divisions):

Wladimir Klitschko
Floyd Mayweather
Guillermo Rigondeaux

 

He probably has a top 5 resume though and resume is one of the main criteria that most people use to rate/rank boxers p4p.

 

I have watched every fighter on my list. I pretty much study boxing non stop, watch multiple fights daily and run my own boxing page. I don't have many posts on here because I post on check hook instead.

I only first saw Ruenroeng when he upset Ioka. I've caught the rest of his fights since then and went back and watched some of his other fights. I think Ruenroeng beats Zoo. I don't really rate Zoo, I think he's gotten worse since his amateur days.

Uchiyama first impressed me when he KO'd Solis on NYE 2012 and stole my KO of the year. Watched the rest of his fights since, I think he's slowing down. He'd better get active again in 2015 as he looked poor and got hurt on NYE 2013 then did nothing all 2014 till NYE and he didn't look that great up till he got the stoppage IMO.

Yamanaka I first saw back when he beat Darchinyan back in 2012. Not caught all his fights since then but most of them.

So I guess I've seen probably about 5 of Yamanaka and Ruenroeng and probably a few more of Uchiyama's.

 

I will check out your site.
Do you work or is that your job?
I've stated before on here, with my job I just about have time to watch the televised fights and what I can grab from tcboxing along with the ufc

Sadly, I don't get chance to watch every fight

 

He has a top 5 resume in the sport, that's a hugely important factor. You may have thought he lost some fights but he has wins over Vazeuz, Witter, Cherry, Holt, Campbell, Peterson, Abregu, Alexander, a shot Casamayor, Pacquaio (I thought this fight was a lot closer than most say, and I recall you saying you thought Bradley won.), Provodnikov, a top p4p fighter in Marquez and Chavez. I have him at 8

He 100% won the third fight with Manny to enter the list, that isn't arguable. He then sparked manny in a close fight where he had already had manny down. I think it's foolish to say he was on his way to being stopped as he was still very much active in the fight. PEDS are just speculation and so with 2 wins over ATG Pacquiao he is deserving of a spot in the top p4p, I have him at 9.

Say what you want about him ducking people, everyone thought he was going to lose to Dawson and he sparked him. He then has a group of solid B wins (people really really underrate Fonfara and Sukhotsky. Bellew is a ****house but still a decent win). I have him at 14.

Yes, I agree both were blown up HOWEVER Darchinyan is still a good scalp to get on your resume, and Donaire was a very good win despite him being past his best. A win over someone like Lomachenko would be HUGE for his resume. He has a lot of potential and he can and will get a lot done in the division. I don't think he deserves to be ranked as high as the other dude had him. I have him at 16.

Yeah, he is the ****. I have him at 6 like. The reason this dude is withholding putting him higher is cause he wants to see him prove himself one more time, I can see why he is saying this. I do rate him hugely though and I think he has ATG potential.

I never had him a top 10 p4p guy, don't think he deserves it. Hasn't a marquee win. You're probably right though, it's about time I take him off the list.

I had Danny edging into top 10 till Herrera beat him. Still, off the strength of Khan and Matthysse and his other B wins, he is deserving of a spot. I have him at 18.

I agree with everything you say here. I think top 10 is just a bit too high compared to some of the other dudes I have in my top 10 but I have him at 15 and for a while was saying he would be the p4p king (till Inoue, Gonzalez and others really impressed me)

I think I do have Cotto too high at 11 (and I don't even really like Cotto) and have been thinking about dropping him a bit but when you take it for what it is, his win over Martinez is huge. Injury or not.

Yeah I don't even rate J. Gonzalez in my top 30. I was just saying, lucky punches don't exist in boxing.

I think Lomachenko will be a huge, huge name in the sport. But he only has one good win against Russel Jr. If he had beaten Salido I'd have him in the top 30, but he didn't. So I don't. I do expect he will be top 10 within a year though.



How you been anyway dude? It's been forever.

 

It's just a small facebook page I started out recently man, just a hobby really. The Blue Corner. I like to stay completely on top of my boxing though.

 

Good stuff, il try check it out

 

Been good, still out of the gym but planning to get back this year (like I always do ). I have an account at the other place but rarely use it since it's always down.

You attach more weight to accomplishments and significance than I do. I view p4p as 100% exclusively about h2h ability if size were equal. That's why I rank guys like Loma/Inoue/Rigo/Crawford/Garcia/GGG so highly. If it turns out they didn't deserve it then I just toss em :good

I feel like the regular top 10 divisional rankings are for "Well he has X titles in X divisions and beat X current/future/former champions."

My p4p is all about "He would beat X if they were in the same weight class and sized proportionally." Good wins over quality opponents count, but for example something like Cotto over Martinez holds absolutely zero weight in my book.

 

Floyd&Pac
.
.
Wlad, JMM, Ward.

Anyway p4p are gay and pointless.

 

This is the correct list :happy:happy

 

* Unified WBC and WBO light welter champion
def. Peterson and Alexander

* WBO welterweight titleholder
def. Pacquiao (controversally), Provodnikov and Marquez
lost to Pacquiao
drew with Chaves (should have won)

If we go by his skills, abilities and recent results and achievements, he's definitely not up there. He has had a good career so far, but it's not like it has been some all-time great run or anything like that (which is not the criteria to judge the best fighters at the moment anyway).

 

1. Mayweather
2. Klitschko
3. Pacquiao
4. Crawford
5. Froch
6. Golovkin
7. Alvarez
8. Inoue
9. Kovalev
10. Rigondeaux

 

Lol, no. You are really selling his resume short there.

Miguel Vazquez, Junior Witter, Edner Cherry, Kendall Holt, Nate Campbell, Lamont Peterson, Luis Abregu, Devon Alexander, Joel Casamayor, Manny Pacquiao**, Ruslan Provodnikov, Juan Manuel Marquez, Diego Chaves.

That is a ****ing great resume.