Pound-for-Pound rankings BY YEAR. Can we come up with a mythical list?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Oxygene2, May 5, 2015.


  1. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I recently read that we can argue that Mayweather Jr. has been top-ten P4P for 15 years and perhaps #1 for 6 years.

    Who was the P4P #1 throughout boxing history?

    Perhaps we could start by at least figuring out a worthy list since 2000? And then move on from there...
     
    Oxygene2, May 5, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 5, 2015
    #1
  2. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'll get us started bys howing how The Ring Magazine have it since 1989.

    http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings

    1989 - Mike Tyson (Chavez)
    1990 - Julio Cesar Chavez (Whitaker)
    1991 - Julio Cesar Chavez (2) (Whitaker)
    1992 - Julio Cesar Chavez (3) (Whitaker)
    1993 - Pernell Whitaker (Chavez)
    1994 - Pernell Whitaker (2) (Jones Jr.)
    1995 - Pernell Whitaker (3) (Jones Jr.)
    1996 - Roy Jones Jr. (De La Hoya)
    1997 - Oscar De La Hoya (Jones Jr.)
    1998 - Oscar De La Hoya (2) (Jones Jr.)
    1999 - Roy Jones Jr. (2) (Mayweather Jr.)
    2000 - Shane Mosley (Trinidad)
    2001 - Shane Mosley (2) (Hopkins)
    2002 - Bernard Hopkins (Jones Jr.)
    2003 - Roy Jones Jr. (3) (Hopkins)
    2004 - Bernard Hopkins (2) (Mayweather Jr.)
    2005 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (Wright)
    2006 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2) (Pacquiao)
    2007 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (3) (Pacquiao)
    2008 - Manny Pacquiao (Marquez)
    2009 - Manny Pacquiao (2) (Mayweather Jr.)
    2010 - Manny Pacquiao (3) (Mayweather Jr.)
    2011 - Manny Pacquiao (4) (Mayweather Jr.)
    2012 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (4) (Ward)
    2013 - Floyd Mayweather Jr (5). (Ward)

    There aren't official P4P year-end rankings as far as I can see from Ring Magazine, but I'm going to suggest the following for now:

    2014 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (6) (Dunno who is second, but not inactive Ward)
    2015 - not yet complete so we'll see, though Mayweather Jr. looks a good bet early doors. Guys like GGG and Ward should really be competing but it's all a bit slow. It's worth noting that Wladimir would probably be top 3-4 for many of those more recent years. Fighters like Rigondeaux and Gonzalez need to start being considered.
     
    Oxygene2, May 5, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 5, 2015
    #2
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm sure we attempted this once a few years ago.

    It got really hard to rank people due to retrospective knowledge.

    I think we put something together though.
     
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    #3
  4. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't mind the idea of retrospectively changing results a little bit based on a key match-up happening that gives us more thorough knowledge after the face. Maybe Whitaker deserves to take one of those years away from Chavez?

    I guess really that it would be fairest to come up with a list based on the opinion of the time though and not let retrospect distort things too much.

    Do you have a link to this previous collaborative effort?
     
    Oxygene2, May 6, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 6, 2015
    #4
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Was on a other site.

    But here was as far as we got.
    Floyd Mayweather Jr. Nov 2011 Jan 2014
    Manny Pacquiao Mar 2008 Nov 2011
    Floyd Mayweather Jr Jul 2005 Mar 2008
    Bernard Hopkins May 2004 Jul 2005
    Roy Jones Jr Mar 2003 May 2004
    Bernard Hopkins Jan 2002 Mar 2003
    Shane Mosley Jun 2000 Jan 2002
    Roy Jones Jr Jun 1999 Jun 2000
    Oscar De La Hoya Apr 1997 Jun 1999
    Pernell Whitaker Sep 1993 Apr 1997
    Julio Cesar Chavez Feb 1990 Sep 1993
    Mike Tyson Apr 1987 Feb 1990
    Marvin Hagler Sep 1986 Apr 1987
    Don Curry Dec 1985 Sep 1986
    Marvin Hagler Dec 1983 Dec 1985
    Ray Leonard Jun 1980 Dec 1983
    Roberto Duran Oct 1978 Jun 1980
    Carlos Zarate Apr 1977 Oct 1978
    Carlos Monzon Feb 1974 Apr 1977
    Jose Napoles Jun 1972 Feb 1974
    Ken Buchanan Dec 1970 Jun 1972
    Jose Napoles Oct 1969 Dec 1970
    Nicolino Locche Dec 1968 Oct 1969
    Muhammad Ali Apr 1967 Dec 1968
    Emile Griffith Dec 1965 Apr 1967
    Muhammad Ali May 1965 Dec 1965
    Eder Jofre Mar 1961 May 1965
    Pascual Perez Sep 1955 Mar 1961
    Archie Moore Apr 1955 Sep 1955
    Kid Gavilan Jun 1952 Apr 1955
    Ray Robinson Dec 1946 Jun 1952
    Willie Pep Nov 1942 Dec 1946
    Joe Louis Jul 1941 Nov 1942
    Henry Armstrong May 1938 Jul 1941
    Barney Ross Jun 1933 May 1938
    Tony Canzoneri Jun 1932 Jun 1933
    Micky Walker Jun 1930 Jun 1932
    Gene Tunney May 1925 Jun 1930
    Harry Greb Mar 1922 May 1925
    Jack Dempsey Jul 1919 Mar 1922
    Benny Leonard Nov 1917 Jul 1919
    Mike Gibbons Jan 1916 Nov 1917
    Packey McFarland Nov 1911 Jan 1916
    Jack Johnson Oct 1909 Nov 1911
    Stanley Ketchel Nov 1908 Oct 1909
    Billy Papke Sep 1908 Nov 1908
    Stanley Ketchel Aug 1908 Sep 1908
    Joe Gans Jan 1906 Aug 1908
    James Jeffries Nov 1901 Jan 1906
    Terry McGovern Jan 1900 Nov 1901
    James Jeffries Jun 1899 Jan 1900
    Bob Fitzsimmons Jan 1891 Jun 1899
    Jack N.P. Dempsey Dec 1887 Jan 1891
    John L Sullivan Jul 1882 Dec 1887
     
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    #5
  6. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thank you so much for this. How much agreement was there over this listing? How were these decisions arrived at? Do you agree that in a golden era for heavyweights in the '70s, that nonetheless they didn't deserve the #1 spot? They are shut out for the entire decade.

    I'll look through this in more depth later.
     
    Oxygene2, May 6, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 6, 2015
    #6
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It was me who did the original draft and then other posters chimed in with suggestions... It was impossible to reach consensus for example pascal perez would not have been regarded as the best in the world but I couldn't find a better man.

    Was really hard agreeing the years before ring mag.
     
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    #7
  8. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    No Sam Langford or Jimmy Wilde? No George Dixon or Jack McAuliffe?
     
    OvidsExile, May 6, 2015
    OvidsExile, May 6, 2015
    #8
  9. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Harry Greb and Benny Leonard were far superior to Jack Dempsey during the late 1910s and early 1920s. After 1922, Greb was past his peak despite still being a great fighter.

    Sam Langford may have been the great p4p fighter before World War I.

    Jose Napoles was past his peak during much of his reign as the world welterweight champion.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
    Chuck1052, May 6, 2015
    Chuck1052, May 6, 2015
    #9
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    This is the problem really, revisionist opinions opposing contemporary opinions.

    Every man and his dog rates greb as greater than Dempsey today, but I find it hard to believe anyone had anyone else as p4p number 1 during Dempsey's prime.
     
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 6, 2015
    #10
  11. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Perhaps we need two lists.

    List 1: as viewed at the time
    List 2: hypothetical truth (in absence of the required fights during the period of judgment) based on hindsight.

    List 1 is the fairest way to do it, and List 2 runs into all sorts of problems in the absence of fights. It doesn't disturb the May-Pac results from Ring Mag for example, because they were still fighting elite enough opposition to lay claim to the title. Pacquaio was destroying elite fighters and deserves his years as the #1, and Mayweather deserves his.
     
    Oxygene2, May 7, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 7, 2015
    #11
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Plus people say things like "langford is missing " but looking at the era and nailing down a consistent run when he was regarded as the best boxer bar none is difficult.
     
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2015
    #12
  13. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's why I suggested doing it by year-end, but I guess boxing doesn't really have "seasons" that start in January and end in December, so it's probably better to do it by runs, as you did. It's tricky. Also at the moment I don't see much interest on this forum to really delve into this idea — expected a bigger response, to be entirely honest.

    Perhaps for periods where it's close, there should be disputed number one boxers, and they should both (or even three) be mentioned. Of course, sometimes a boxer will be the consensus #1 P4P.
     
    Oxygene2, May 7, 2015
    Oxygene2, May 7, 2015
    #13
  14. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    You did it for guys like Locche and Perez. I don't think they were ever considered the p4p kings, even if in hindsight you could make the case. Probably ditto for Ken Buchanan. Guys like Ali seem to have absorbed the limelight in it's entirety at the time, the way May and Pac have in ours, to the detriment of Rigondeaux, Gonzalez, Donaire, Ward, and Golovkin.
     
    OvidsExile, May 7, 2015
    OvidsExile, May 7, 2015
    #14
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The first two were wildly inconsistent.

    Buchanan wasn't the same case, he was very highly rated in his pomp, I would never have considered him numero uni
     
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2015
    #15