Pound for Pound Top 100 Active List

A couple of things.
1. I rationalized my opinion in greater detail on Broner earlier.
2. I don't have Broner ahead of Erdei or Arce. I do have him ahead of Sturm, which I think is fine as Sturm is, in my opinion, 0-2 in his last two fights.
3. Him being American only affects how his career is handled, not how we should actually view his accomplishments.
4. Wow, you make all these questioning statements then go ahead and finish your post off with a reference to him not defending his close to meaningless WBO title enough. Eloy Perez was a lower end top 10 super featherweight, if Broner defended his title against him or if he didn't have a title to defend against him all the same.

Thank you, sir.

I can understand that, and struggled myself on where to place him.

I too scored the Matthysse fight to Lucas, but call me crazy, I scored the Kotelnik fight to Alexander (115-113 I think). Both very close fights, understandable to score either way.

In the end, even including the two controversial wins (which, even if you think he lost, I'm sure you'd admit they were close either way), his resume is legit. WUD12 Corley, WRTD8 Witter (vacant WBC), WTKO8 Urango (IBF unification), WUD12 Kotelnik, LTD10 Bradley, WSD10 Matthysse, WUD10 Maidana. Those are some big names.

 

Thanks.

If you happen to check back, what major points stand out as differing? (as in top 10, exclusion of someone, valuing or not valuing lower or higher weight classes, etc.)

First of all, I am a BIG Segura fan. He's one of my 10 favorite active fighters. It wasn't just the defeat, but how it happened. I scored only 2 rounds for Segura, who was beaten pretty horribly up and down. He showed none of the talent in the few skill sets that he really does possess. I'm surprised to be called out on that, as I took **** for still having him ahead of Peterson and Khan.

Joke? (I hope)

Guzman is on the short list of the next 20. He really needs to step it up to refresh my memory of his prime rather than his recent NC failed drug test, suspension with inactivity, and Funeka joke D and SD 9 pound weight advantage. I'll show Dirrell respect for what he has done when he earns it again. No way he deserves to be top 100 as of now.

 

Kirkland was very unimpressive. I believe I had given him 2 of the rounds before the KD and DQ in the 10th. While I thought Molina was winning clearly, he too unimpressed me, call me crazy. They proved they belong and ultimately, Molina stayed put and Kirkland dropped down 4 spots to be one spot ahead of Molina, #72 and 73.

Danny Garcia enters at #95, splitting between Shimizu and Cazares.

Hernan Marquez, Jan Zaveck, and Tomasz Adamek stay put on virtue of their good, yet flat wins.

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Up next, we've got:

Rungvisai vs. Sato
Joyi vs. Takayama II
Narvaez vs. Cabrera
Pavlik vs. Jaco

 

3/27/12 WBC super flyweight title
#50 Suriyan Rungvisai vs. Yota Sato

My scorecard:
Rungvisai / Sato
9/10
9/10
7/10
9/10
10/9
10/9
10/9
10/9
10/10
10/9
10/9
10/9
Total: 114-113 Rungvisai

Result: Sato UD12 Rungvisai with scores of 116-110 and 114-112 (X2)

Opinion on fight: I thought rounds 2 and 9 were the closest of the fight, which I gave to Sato and even, respectively. I thought Sato gassed out after he halted Rungvisai's rally early in the 4th to dominate that round. Rungvisai dominated from the opening bell of the 5th all the way to the finish, with the 9th certainly being a round which could go to either. I also feel that Rungvisai did more damage in the rounds he won, as Sato never hurt Rungvisai after the two great KD's in the 10-7 3rd.

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Rungvisai takes a tumble from his previously lofty #50 to below fellow division mates Shimizu and Cazares at #96. Sato, who fought a great fight and on my card lost by 1 point, falls just short of entering the list. He is on the short list on the outside looking in due to a resume entering the fight which was good enough to get him into the Ring Top 10 at 115 lbs, but really doesn't have any accomplishments worthy of entering the elite 100 P4P quite yet. A title defense or two would certainly change that.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful input. You make great points and I truly do see them and understand them.

All I can say is that with the very essence of a "Top 100 P4P List," one is going to both contradict themselves and show personal bias/preferences. That is the whole purpose of it, really. This is just how I feel. The cool thing about this is that time will help to show how my view of fighters' actually was.

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Another thing about "perceived skill" which I might add would be that Ring Magazine (and myself) took a lot of crap for having Nonito Donaire in the top 10 P4P before his fights with Sidorenko or Montiel. Retrospect can tell us that he was indeed a top 10 fighter before those fights occurred.

So for example, if Ricky Burns goes on to lose in his next fight to say, Urbano Antillon, you'd be right and my high ranking of him could be somewhat provable as being too high. Then again, if he goes on to finish the calendar year by beating say Kevin Mitchell and Mercito Gesta, I think that would do the opposite and validate where I rank him. Anyway, I do think Burns has been on a run worthy of being where he is. Maybe I think too highly of Martinez, Katsidis, and Moses and value the weight jump too highly?

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About the Suriyan vs. Sato argument...

Yes, I do see that. And yes, it was a close fight, but no, I cannot see anyone scoring the fight any better than a draw for Sato. Having said that, I do still respect the decision to some degree. Hence, why Rungvisai fell from 50 to 96. That's a big tumble. But not just because of the official decision, but because he was unable to execute to the degree of success some of the things he did against top tier 115 pounders in Rojas and Nashiro consecutively. I clearly didn't think too highly of Sato, not enough to get him on the list.

The Kono win is good, but once again, when his best wins are Rungvisai (which I scored against him) and Kono, with a big drop off after that, it shows why he doesn't belong quite yet. Show me more of those skills and my view of the Rungvisai fight can even change.

Compared to Rungvisai, who has a very legitamite resume despite the "20-5-1" which people will see when looking at him. He holds a win a couple years ago over Tepparith, now a top 10 guy in his division, back when both had only a handful of career fights. He lost to then lineal and consensus P4P top 10 Wonjongkam by a combined 5 points amongst the 3 judges at flyweight. He moved up and won UD's over titlist Rojas and Nashiro in a very impressive back-to-back. He earned his ranking. Can't quite use that word to describe Sato's.

Having said this, Sato is literally just short of cracking the list. Moises Fuentes is #101 by virtue of previously being 100 and getting bumped out. After that, in no order, are the Mijares', Chavez Jr's, Jones', Golovkins', and Satos' of the world.

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Once again, thanks for the thoughtful response. If you ever feel bored and want to strike conversation about something, in agreement or disagreement, just do so here.

 

My P4P list as of 3/30/12:

1. Floyd Mayweather 42-0, KO 26
2. Manny Pacquiao 54-3-2, KO 38
3. Juan Manuel Marquez 53-6-1, KO 39
4. Nonito Donaire 28-1, KO 18
5. Andre Ward 25-0, KO 13
6. Sergio Martinez 49-2-2, KO 28
7. Wladimir Klitschko 57-3, KO 50
8. Timothy Bradley 28-0, KO 12
9. Vitali Klitschko 44-2, KO 40
10. Anselmo Moreno 32-1-1, KO 11
11. Chad Dawson 30-1, KO 17
12. Bernard Hopkins 52-5-2, KO 32
13. Miguel Cotto 37-2, KO 30
14. Toshiaki Nishioka 39-4-3, KO 24
15. Yuriorkis Gamboa 21-0, KO 16
16. Brian Viloria 29-3, KO 17
17. Lucian Bute 30-0, KO 24
18. Chris John 46-0-2, KO 22
19. Orlando Salido 38-11-2, KO 26
20. Mikkel Kessler 44-2, KO 33

For archival purposes, I am posting Dan Rafael's top 20 P4P list. His is as of 3/27/12, but none of mine above from 2 or 3 days later fought in that span. This means nothing about how I view Rafael or his list, but just for reference. His is as follows.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Andre Ward
6. Nonito Donaire
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Wladimir Klitschko
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Miguel Cotto
11. Vitali Klitschko
12. Lucian Bute
13. Lamont Peterson
14. Amir Khan
15. Yuriorkis Gamboa
16. Chad Dawson
17. Toshiaki Nishioka
18. Chris John
19. Brian Viloria
20. Brandon Rios

 

From an earlier post of mine when questioned about Adamek being below Huck:

And you cite Yoan Pablo Hernandez as being an example of a one hit wonder. Examine his recent streak of fights, this all over the past 30 months:
Steve Cunningham II UD12, Steve Cunningham I TD6, Steve Herelius KO7, Ali Ismailov KO1, Zack Page UD8, Cesar Crenz UD12, Enad Licina UD12

Compared to Adamek, over that same span going back to the Hernandez/Licina fight:
Nagy Aguilera UD10, Vitali Klitschko L TKO10, Kevin McBride UD12, Vinny Madalone TKO5, Michael Grant UD12, Chris Arreola MD12, Jason Estrada UD12, Andrew Golota TKO5

Well, I believe he does. He looked very good in the Bouadla fight. I think it might even be a tad underrated being that it is often just seen as a cupcake-tuneup bout. For a bunch of reasons, he doesn't belong much lower. No way I could justify ranking Froch above him, sorry.

Most importantly though is that I clearly don't hold inactivity against fighters to the degree that most posters on ESB do. Joyi hasn't taken a hit despite not fighting in 14 months now. Mayweather is clearly P4P #1 and was so at the end of my 2010 calendar year due to what he has accomplished throughout the past 13 years and the extreme dominant nature which he did so. In a case such as Dzinziruk, he was dropped from the list after his 12 months of inactivity. It was because he had an inactive streak of 10+ months before the Sergio loss, and because of that is 22 months removed from a fight at 154 pounds. All of that combined for Dzinziruk to be removed, with his accomplishments to be held in high regard when he does return to the ring, and especially, when he returns to junior middleweight. Kessler will be 11 months inactive when he suits up against Allan Green @ LHW in May. While Kessler's and Dzinziruks' time frames are comparable, their performances, results, and careers overall are not.

And I don't mind disagreeing with Dan Rafael. In fact, I enjoy it a little bit and would hope to disagree with him, as I find him to be a less than neutral or even a serious journalist.

Thanks, Axe. Why do you believe he doesn't? Largely due to inactivity or do you just think his career accomplishments are overrated in general?