Povetkin has Covid, rematch POSTPONED

It’s just a very lazy thing to criticise Fury about and seemingly totally unfounded. Fury seems to get right up people’s noses to the point where they can’t bring themselves to be objective. I can’t think of another British fighter like it. The ones that dislike him seem to genuinely hate the man.

I won’t pretend that I like Joshua, I think he’s not a very good bloke and was pleased when Ruiz beat him. I admit though that he’s safely the second best heavyweight in the UK, probably the world, and him vs Fury would be very close. Fury ‘haters’ don’t seem able to be objective at all.

 

Yeah, it does seem really personal with some people when it comes to Fury, it seems less about his boxing ability and more about his personality.

And they let that cloud their judgement and opinion.

AJ does the whole PR thing quite well, lovely little interviews, his little phrases like "stay humble, posting little inspirational quotes, he also looks the part.. it's all very deliberate and calculated.

Where Fury, he just seems to speak off the cuff, says whatever he likes and doesn't seem to give a toss about the consequences and Fury looks like he hardly trains, bodywise, he is just natural looking.

Don't misunderstand me, Fury can be too much sometimes but that's him, you just have to accept that and look past it to what he actually does in the ring.


Fury is undoubtedly number 1 in the world, AJ is probably second right now.

 

Agreed. I can see why Fury would be annoying to some given his personality and demeanour but it really feels personal. I don’t really know why that is - prejudice towards travellers perhaps (Tony Hayers). Some can’t even bring themselves to give Fury praise without any qualifications - Mitch for example determined to detract from the Wilder win by trying to discredit Wilder as a fighter.

For me, AJ is too manufactured. Too polished and perfectly designed to be marketed. Looks the part, has been trained to say the right things, right backstory etc. It’s a bit boring. The reason I’m not keen on him is because the leaked ‘superior’ DMs showed what he’s actually like and Matchroom covered that up really quickly so only a few people know it happened.

 

I was going to mention the fact Fury is a traveller, but I thought it might cause a few problems but I think it's definitely a factor.

Because in my opinion it has been with the British press, the difference in the way they have treated Fury and AJ is rather disgusting to be honest.

For example, They would have soiled themselves if AJ was the one who went to Germany and ended the 10 year reign of WK, we would have never heard the end of it, but they almost dismissed that Fury win, claimed WK was old, done, finished.

Then a couple of years later, WK is out of the ring for a very long period, coming off the Fury defeat, gets beat by AJ and they lose their minds, even though Fury beat WK far more easily, AJ was dropped and lucky to get through it, it was hailed as a NEW ERA.. they just forgot about Fury.


As for AJ, all those DM's were completely ignored, the PR was incredible, I've never seen anything like it, a Prime Minister wouldn't get that much cover, but it is what it is, AJ is the Golden Boy and Fury is the villain.

But I think Fury is turning around with the British public, I think more and more people are seeing through AJ and loving the authenticity of Fury, people love other people jut being themselves, being honest and Fury is certainly that.

 

I agree. I think Fury overdoes the mental health stuff to an extent (although I agree with the message and his general approach) but I think he is fundamentally a sincere and principled man.

I just hope we get to see AJ vs Fury next year - such a terrible shame it almost definitely won’t be in front of 90k at Wembley.

 

I dont understand what Wilder has done to be merited so highly?

AJ, Fury, Povetkin, Whyte, Parker and Ruiz all have stronger resumes.

It's clear to see Wilder has avoided come foward pressure fighter with punching power his whole career. It was shown why when Fury who is not known to fight in that style or as heavy puncher was able to to put hin on that backfoot leaving Wilder (who cant fight on the back foot) helpless.

Stylistically a come forward power puncher with a tough chin is a nightmare for Wilder (eg Rivas).

 

Wilder's wins over good contenders :

Ortiz x2
Stiverne (the first time, forget the rematch).

That's it. But he knocked out everyone else too, which is remarkable, even if they were bums and journeymen and C-level opponents.

 

Agreed. I was stunned to see that the whole Eddie Chambers beef was simply swept under the carpet like that. No sign of Joshua’s racism whatsoever.
I also agree that Joshua generally comes off as manufactured and I think sometimes that his real personality slips through in the heat of the moment such as in post-fight interviews where to me he generally comes across as a bit of a dick.

Speaking of the importance of his image Johnny Nelson said Sky will not release his Gloves are Off episode with Jarrell Miller since it didn’t fit with his media persona, even though it would be a good watch for the fans.

 

The reason Wilder should be looked at as a threat is because of his history. He is one of the hardest punchers HW boxing has ever seen and has an amazing KO record. He's a threat to anyone based solely on that. The definition of 'a punchers chance'. He even landed on Fury once or twice with big shots in Fury vs Wilder 2. A few more of them and it could have been a different fight..

The issue with the way you compare fighters is you obsessively do it via resume rather than a mix of resume and eye test. Obviously Wilder has plenty of weaknesses and is quite amateurish in his style - but his absurd punching power and KO record demonstrate what a threat he is.

He made relatively short work of Ortiz for example. Over the years many people would have favoured Ortiz to beat Whyte and Ortiz was seen as a bit of a bogeyman.

In reply to one of your earlier posts - I'd probably favour Usyk over Wilder (especially now) too. But other than Joshua, Fury and Usyk - I wouldn't be confident in any of the others assuming Wilder hasn't totally lost the plot. I think Joshua, Usyk and Fury are fairly far ahead of the 'best of the rest' (Ruiz, Parker, Whyte etc).

 

Wilder KO power does pose a threat and gives him a punchers chance against the top HWs but that's just it, a punchers chance. Wilder is very limited fighter with many floors and relys soley on his KO power. Against the top HWs which he hasnt any as of yet I think the top HWs are too well rounded for him.

As for people thinking Ortiz would have beaten Whyte I don't see it myself. Ortiz has only beaten one notable person in Jennings and that was 5 years ago. Also Ortiz defence is poor, even Hammer found it easy to land on him. Whilst Whyte has only lost to fighters better than Wilder nevermind Ortiz in AJ and Povetkin and beaten the likes of Parker, Rivas, Chisora x 2 and Helenius.

 

I think you vastly underestimate how powerful Wilder actually is and the skill it takes to A) avoid those unpredictable punches and B) position yourself using footwork to take the fight to him.

He's sloppy and amateurish but regardless of his padded record he was definitely feared before Fury 2. I'd still fancy him (provided he's not lost the plot) to beat anyone bar Fury/Joshua/Usyk.

 

Exactly, only the other day I was reading something Joshua had said about the breakdown of the Ortiz KO...

"The good thing he does here, his back's on the ropes against Ortiz, which is a dangerous place to be because on the ropes there's no room to create space.

"But what he does, he flicks the jab out to make Ortiz think, 'Hang on a minute, there's something coming back if I dive in.'

"So Ortiz steps back and follows him across. What Wilder does as he's moving round to get more space, from the ropes he's moved around, he's the general in the ring because he's got all the space behind him.

"Now Ortiz's back is on the ropes, which is a very dangerous place for Ortiz, so Wilder's done a great thing there to turn the tables.

"He's controlling with the lead hand. Not every jab is going to land, sometimes we just use it as a smokescreen to put something there.

"And once that jab touches your hand, your shoulder, your face, I know this bad boy [the right hand] is going to follow."


I don’t agree with everything Joshua says but he’s bang on here. He acknowledges the intelligence behind throwing that huge right hand. It isn’t just a ‘punchers chance’. Come on, we’re boxing fans, us lot most of all know that it’s not that simple. That there’s a great deal of ring intelligence involved to throw that ko shot. Wilder isn’t textbook in his style, he can look very sloppy, but he’s world class in setting up and delivering the KO. If that first fight against Fury was in the UK, the ref wouldn’t even have counted and he’d be getting a lot more respect than he does now no matter what happened in the 2nd fight.

 

Exactly. I've used the term 'punchers chance' to describe Wilder in this thread - but I've used it clumsily. What I'm getting at really is that he can finish a fight at any second even when he's down on the cards. To an extent all heavyweights can do that, but I don't think any current HW can do that as readily as Wilder can. I mean it in a different way to - say - Tom Little having a 'punchers chance' against Dubois simply because he's a HW and can hit hard.

As you say - people love to after-time about Wilder in an attempt to detract from the Fury win. Yes he's sloppy, clumsy and unconventional but he's beaten everyone he's ever faced bar Fury. You don't win that many fights at any level by sheer fluke.

Mitch has used Whyte as an example of someone who'd beat Wilder. I'd fancy Wilder to beat Whyte because I don't think Whyte has the ring IQ and footwork to manage the distance and space. As we saw with Povetkin - his footwork and ring IQ can leave him a bit vulnerable.

 

Whyte is the perfect opponent for Wilder. Slow, clumsy footwork, easy to hit. The old Whyte used to come forward and try and force a fight, these days he prefers to use his jab and invite opponents into his space instead. So this idea of some that Whyte will come forward and rough someone like Wilder up isn’t true. Watch him against Rivas, Chisora 2 and Povetkin, he almost fights on the back foot at a pedestrian pace. He’s changed his style significantly. Wilder would be testing that chin in the first round because his footwork is so poor.