Povetkin Pumpers: You've got some 'splainin' to do

You really need to educate yourself on amateur boxing if you think someone with no boxing skills can beat Roberto Cammarelle 4 times. And I remember a lot of people here claiming Perez is a top10 HW and Povetkin-Perez would be a competitive fight, I must've missed the part he became a nobody.

 

What it comes down to though, is that Povetkin has had good resume before he even challenged for a world title. So there's not as much scrutiny for his title defenses, that's about it.

 

I don't see Povetkin to be the monster that some people think....he really struggled vs Huck who was a good boxer but not THAT great. I don't care how many times Wlad leaned on Pov's neck....he could have done something to counteract that action, like maybe landing some body punches on Wlad or even low blows to discourage Wlad. Povetkin's once big shot at HW history and he fought like...well, he fought like David Haye did.

I'm supporting Wilder as an American vs the Russian, but at this point the fight may be closer than we think. As long as Wilder keeps him at a distance with his jab, this is winnable for him. And he needs to do his Watusi dance which is obviously a voodoo charm that paralyzes his opponents.

 

Yea but that performance doesn't speak for his ability now, that was pretty much his lowest point IMO.

I think Povetkin's proven he's a really good HW, he's got probably the 2nd best resume but stylistically, the fight may not suit him, that's what I fear (cause I want to see Wilder get knocked out).

 

You nailed him. :good

 

OP ju haff sum splainin' to do!

Defend your thread.....

 

No it's not. Lineal matters. Neither Povetkin or Wilder became the lineal champions after winning belts. Ha haaaaaaaa...!!!

Dan Rafael, ESPN Senior Writer
1127K
Shares
Email
Print
Comment
Since the dawn of the alphabet age of boxing belts in the mid-1980s, a lot of fighters have held versions of the heavyweight title.

Many of them have been good big men who happened to pick up a trinket but were never regarded as the legitimate champ. There were forgettable reigns of mere titleholders such as Herbie Hide, Oleg Maskaev, John Tate, James "Bonecrusher" Smith, Tony Tucker, Michael Bentt, David Haye and several others.

What counts in my book, especially in the heavyweight division, is the lineal championship (some call it the linear championship). That is, the man who beat the man, who beat the man, etc., regardless of which belt the champ holds, or even if he doesn't hold one at all (which has happened).

We're talking about men such as Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.

The heavyweight lineage has had a few breaks in the more than 120 years since John L. Sullivan became the first champion, but generally an accepted new lineage has been established when the two leading legitimate contenders (not just some manufactured alphabet-rated guys) have met.

It isn't exact science, to be sure, but the identity of the lineal champion is often easy to determine. When Mike Tyson had all of the sanctioning body belts, he still wasn't the lineal champion. He couldn't make that claim until after he knocked out Michael Spinks, who, despite having been stripped of his alphabet title, carried on the lineage because he had defeated Larry Holmes.

Of course, when Buster Douglas knocked out Tyson, he claimed organization titles as well as the lineage. Then Evander Holyfield knocked Douglas out, and on and on it went.

When Foreman knocked out Michael Moorer in 1994 to become the lineal champ (for the second time, 20 years after his first reign), he claimed two of the main alphabet belts. Foreman was eventually stripped of both for failing to make mandatory defenses, but that had no bearing on the lineage. The only way to lose that title is to fall in the ring or retire (or move to another division).

In 1997, Foreman, sans any belts, lost a controversial decision to Shannon Briggs. It was one of the worst decisions in heavyweight history, and Foreman never fought again. But the silver lining in the mess was that Briggs held the lineage when he faced alphabet titleholder Lennox Lewis in 1998. Lewis waxed him in five rounds to hold on to his trinket and, more important, assume the lineage.

Lewis kept it until 2001, when Hasim Rahman knocked him out, then regained it later that year when he drilled Rahman in the rematch. But then Lewis retired in early 2004, breaking the lineage.

This is where recent heavyweight lineage gets a bit murky.

In his final bout, Lewis defeated Vitali Klitschko, the clear No. 1 contender, in a very competitive fight that Klitschko was winning on the scorecards until it was stopped because of his badly cut eye. Under the circumstances, it was only logical that Klitschko should be involved in the fight to re-establish the lineage.

Fighting for the alphabet belt that Lewis vacated upon his retirement, Klitschko eventually faced the late Corrie Sanders, a legitimate contender who was coming off an upset knockout win against titleholder Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali's younger brother.

Vitali Klitschko stopped Sanders in the eighth round in April 2004 in an excellent fight. Besides winning a vacant alphabet belt, Klitschko was also awarded the vacant Ring magazine title, which had been created to clearly identify the legitimate champion in each division (before the magazine's championship policy had been radically altered and muddled).

There are many who view Vitali's victory over Sanders as his having re-established the lineage following Lewis' retirement. Others aren't so sure.

Regardless, after Klitschko defeated Danny Williams in his next fight, he retired for nearly four years because of various injuries. That broke the lineage again (or, depending on your view, left it unrepaired post-Lewis).

But during Vitali's retirement, Wladimir emerged as the dominant heavyweight force. In 2006, he won an alphabet belt by knocking out Chris Byrd (who owns a win over Vitali), and in 2008 he unified two belts.

It wasn't until 2009 that Wladimir re-established the lineage. The Ring title was still legit at that time, when he thrashed leading contender Ruslan Chagaev, who, for good measure, had never lost his alphabet belt in the ring (he had been stripped).

Thus, whatever your perception is of Vitali's claim on the lineage, Wladimir has clearly restored it.

Even if, on its own, hammering Chagaev wasn't enough, Klitschko surely should have persuaded any remaining doubters by now, having won five more fights in a row (four by knockout) against mostly top contenders to firmly establish himself as the man in the weight class -- the legitimate and lineal champion.

The next lineal champ will be the man who beats Wladimir. And if Wladimir retires and the lineage is broken, we'll just have to wait and see who can restore it.

 

just stfu you boring ass skidmark.


oh, didnt read.

 

You're still going to ride with this alt huh scumbag, lmao...!!!???:rofl

I'm going to make you do what you've always wanted to do. Force your punk ass to do it. Go ahead, do it lol. You don't want me to be considered an boxing forum martyr. Posters know, lol... Once you're gone, (and you won't leave because you think that you have power here lol), the forum will become an even greater place to post again.

 

Indeed.

Also, let's not forget Povetkin was heavily criticized and rediculed on this board for many of his lackluster title defenses and avoiding Wlad like the plague.

 

Povetkin WAS...PAST TENSE...correctly criticized for avoiding Wlad and allowing his career to enter a very dark period of inactivity, poor showings, and soft opponents.

The good news is that he snapped out of it and has been doing a spectacular job. This, coupled with the fact that his early career was prosecuted at a break neck pace, means that all over, Povetkin has had an excellent career.

Wilder has not. His career is garbage all around.

Leaving out the corpses on both sides (Rahman, Harrison, Lyakovich) and just counting the champions and legit contenders each man has fought:

Povetkin in ten years:
Wlad Klit, Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers, Marco Huck, Mike Perez, Larry Donald, Ruslan Chagaev, and Carlos Takam

Wilder in seven years:
Bermaine Stiverne

See the differance there?

OP is a goofy Wilder nuthugger.

 

Yes, you are right that he wasn't completely responsible for his career path back then, trainers and management had a lot to do with it. Very frustrating. Glad he finally took the plunge even though his match with Wlad wasn't very good at all lol.

Like I said in an earlier post, that was then and this is now so Wilder still has something to prove before he can be viewed as being on par with the likes of Povetkin and co.

 

There's no "probably" about it.

And rest well. Povetkin would get the job done against Wilder. Took him 10+ rounds to stop both Molina and Duhaupas. Povetkin lasted the 12 with Wladimir and has seldom if ever been visibly stunned at all... Wilder would be on the back foot the whole time and if his last two opponents were able to do a little bit of damage to Wilder when he got to the ropes, Povetkin really will crush him the moment he backs to the ropes and swings his wild and wide hook-hook-hook-hook-hook combo.

 

:deal

Some seem to believe Povetkin is at major a stylistical disadvantage based on his fight against Wlad. But that doesn't account for the fact that Wilder lacks the tools that Wlad has to handle Povetkin.

Wilder doesn't have a great inside game, his jab although good isn't great and he's not a great clincher. Even if he was to sucessfully clinch povetkin, he is simply not strong enough with his 6'7 and 230lb frame to man handle him like wlad did, in fact povetkin will have zero effort throwing Wilder around like a rag doll because Wilder has almost no lowerbody strength and is too light.

 

Basing anything on the Wlad/Povetkin bout is next to being pointless. Wlad doesn't have an inside game either - other than holding, leaning and trying to balance his whole bodyweight on his opponent's head.

Wilder will attempt to Box at a distance but Povetkin will be able to get to Wilder and force an actual fight to take place.

As far as comparing the two's respective reigns: If I recall correctly, Povetkin did take a lot of heat, at the time his was the WBA regular champ and I suppose the same is happening to Wilder now but, to be frank, it's all BS because if and when these two guys face each other, all questions will be answered and a lot of wasted speculation can then be flushed down the toilet.

In any event, it's going to be a good fight.