Power 180-200 pounds

Nah, he says this:

 

And these people are..? Like I said, they'd have to be related to that blindmen association 'Compubox' (their count of punches that were thrown is ok a lot of time, but punches that landed, they are usually way off of what actual number should be, as I figured out many times counting punches using slow motion and replays).

Ibeabuchi was just standing there flat-footed and trading punches with Tua, isn't that what you were trying to say in your post?

 

You seem to be evading the issue a little here.

The post that you responded to here stated that it is entirely circular logic to try to judge a fighters power from the number of punches that he needs to put an oponent away because we might be talking 57 punches to put away George Chuvalo or 57 punches to put away Michael Grant.

Since nobody did any better than Schmeling in terms of the number of punches they needed to take Louis out it might simply have been the best that anybody could have done under the circumstances.

 

I'm not evading anything, I'm just trying to stick to the original points and not let it shift to other points instead, like who was winning these or those rounds, or that it's punches that hurt not punches that knock you out, etc.
This is not circular logic. It is the manner with which Schmeling landed his punches, right crosses clean and flush to the jaw, and I find it nearly impossible to recall any other example of a fighter with known exceptional punching power (not just good, and the one that hurts, but the one that stuns and knocks people out left and right, as Schmeling's right hand was originally claimed to be very special and exceptionally powerful in this thread) who needed over half a hundred such punches (clean and flush to the jaw with their best punches) to finish somebody off.
I also argued that it wasn't the first right cross that Schmeling landed which you claimed knocked Louis down and desided the fight, and that other people knocked Louis down with single punches, not a repeatition of power shots like was the case with Schmeling.

 

Jimmy Braddock was not the only one who said Max Baer was a harder puncher than Louis, but Maxie tended to telegraph before his loss to Loughran. (Tommy advised him of the fact he was tipping off his punches after outboxing him.) The Larruper also threw much longer shots, which generated more steam, but were also easier to avoid.

No, Louis wasn't the hardest puncher blow for blow, but nobody could put together their combinations like he did, and his well balanced and short traveling strikes were economically consistent in their force, with each impact building on the effects of the last. (Buddy Baer described what getting punched by Louis was like in graphically lucid terms. That account is readily found on-line.) The impression I get is that each short and hard to avoid whack knocked an opponent into the next one, for an unparalleled accumulative beat-down.

The hardest punch Louis ever delivered was the one which floored Uzcudun for a count of seven (Referee Arthur Donovan also described it as the hardest punch he ever witnessed, but he wasn't on the receiving end of it. Uzcudun reportedly agreed with Carnera, Braddock and Schmeling that Baer was indeed the hardest puncher they faced, although Louis was their best opponent.) He weighed 200-1/2 for that match. The hardest punch Louis delivered while weighing under 200 would seem to be the right hand he knocked out Braddock with.

Max Baer weighed 197 for Franke Campbell, and was reportedly never as ruthless again.

Schmeling was a counterpuncher who preferred to hook his rights on an opponent moving in. The shot he blasted down Stribling with is a classic example of this. But he wasn't somebody who committed to his right with abandon, never getting full extension behind it. He needed his foe's cooperation to deliver it with maximun lethality.

I absolutely stand behind Dempsey in this category. The huge Willard stood up to everything Firpo could dish out for over six rounds (when he was past 40 years old), and he withstood everything a beefed up Jack Johnson could deliver for over 25 rounds. Yet Dempsey blasted him down in a minute and a half. He also bounced the Foreman sized Firpo up and down like a basketball, before drubbing him down early in round two with a single uppercut which left Luis on the deck for substantially longer than the count of ten. He dropped Tunney for the only time in Gene's career with essentially two punches; the mid ring counter right which wobbled Tunney to the ropes, and the hook which caught Tunney as he rebounded off those ropes. Just two shots to put him down.

Marciano pounded away on opponents his own weight, for the most part, never having the chance to demonstrate his power against a modern sized superheavyweight.

Louis needed a few rounds to drop Carnera. Max Baer needed one. (Of course I realize that results like this can be misleading. Foster reunified the LHW against Rondon in two rounds, a loss which Vincente followed up by again getting kayoed in two by Ron Lyle. Rondon's very next outing saw him go ten rounds with 200 pound Earnie Shavers. Go figure.)

 

Curtis Shepherd who was a common sparring partner of Louis and Baer also said that Baer hit harder.

At a guess I think that Baer was possibly the hardest puncher of all the heavyweight champions.

 

I've always felt that Dempsey held this distinction, but it may well have indeed been Max Baer in actuality.

A common sparring partner of both Louis and Marciano stated that, "Louis was faster, with a barrage of punches. But Marciano hit harder with one punch than Louis did with four." I wonder if anybody ever had the opportunity to compare Dempsey's power to Maxie's.

In an earlier post, somebody mentioned Fitzsimmons, but I consider Ruby Robert to be a sub 180 pounder, like Foster and Mike Spinks.

 

Reading Dempsey's Championship Fighting, then comparing the techniques he describes against his best film clips makes this abundantly clear. Just as Arguello's precision placement is what made his punches so devastating, so too did Jack's toe pivoting, shoulder whirling, hip rotation and timely fist squeezing (among other factors of execution), all in a confluence of perfectly timed synchronicity. I just can't get that third round image of the force behind Dempsey's mid ring hook to the body driving the 245 pound Willard into an airborne hop. I never saw Foreman do anything like it to somebody who outweighed Big George by over 60 pounds.

RIP Max. As much a class act as boxing has ever produced. It's my understanding that he always enjoyed discussing boxing, so it's highly likely that he provided such comparisons between Dempsey, Baer and Louis, during his long, apparently happy, and well-deserved retirement.

He was certainly born blessed with the long collarbone which translates into power generating shoulder width, and the blacksmithing he did definitely enhanced the necessary upper body development required. But he also did perform interesting mental exercises to further aid his capacity in this regard, and was enough of a technician to have Gans adopt Ruby Robert as his idol.

Your post indicates that you are looking more for examples of inborn power, rather than methodically self-developed power. If this impression is correct, then by your definition Max Baer would indeed be the one to most closely represent that criteria. (Please feel free to further clarify your meaning, if you are so inclined, and think it may be warranted, as I highly value your input.)

Marciano's overhand right was certainly a manifestation of inborn power, but he worked with Goldman for a number of years to develop the hook which floored Louis and took out Matthews. Remarkable success there.

 

OK.

I am fully willing to believe that Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis might have hit as hard as any fighter that ever breathed. My point is that there are two components to punching efectivness which are power and technique.

where you have a fighter with outstanding technique and delivery like Dempsey it is hard to say to what extent it is his power and to what extent it is his method that makes him so efective. With a guy like Baer or Foreman you dont have to ask what the critical factor is.

I am flattered that you value my opinion.

 

Elmer Ray was a very hard hitter who weighted just under 200 he didn't knocked many great fighters but he did hold a lot of knockouts. Rex Layne was also a very hard hitter might not be the hardest but still pack a solid punch.

 

No, you certainly don't. All right then. Who else might you categorize highly in the 180 to 200 pound range in this respect?