Power - Holyfield or Frazier?

Frazier, but not by much.

 

I too will give Frazier the nod in this one, as so many others have. I will say however, that the margin is probably not as wide as some may think. Joe Frazier was not by any means a one-punch KO artist. He ordinarily wore his foes down over time and with an accumulation of many shots. In fact, I would say that he was probably far busier than Holyfield was. We also have to consider that Evander could seriously crack in his early days as both a cruierweight and heavyweight contender. It wasn't until he started aging as well as fighting men of far greater size that we really saw more and more of his fights going to the cards. Frazier never fought a Riddick Bowe and although he fought a much younger Foreman, got killed by him. I don't see Frazier knocking out a 42 year old version of George either.

 

Fraizer. No contest.

 

I would rather get punched 9 times by Holyfield than 8 times by Frazier.

 

Bullcrap to a large degree....... WHY? Well, Ali was not in the best of shape for Manila.... Ali was bloated at 224 1/2 pounds for Frazier in fight # 3.... Ali had been 216 for Foreman just a year earlier in Africa..... Ali's shape in Manila was good, but not great.... Had Ali been a tight and fit 218 in 1975 out in Manila, he would've had an easy time beating on Joe Frazier....... As it was, Ali was punishing Frazier in rds 13 & 14...... Sure, Ali was spent after 14 rds with Frazier in '75, but Frazier was a mess in the corner before rd 15...... Eddie Futch saved Frazier's ass from a real KO!!

MR.BILL

 

Fraziers hook ranks with the best in history and holyfield had no such punch to speak of, evan though he punched pretty hard.

 

I dont think that raw power alone will necisarily make you a knockout artist and that style will always be an important factor in tetermining whether you put people away.

Frazier was always a death by a tousand cuts finisher based on his style.

What convinces me of his power more than anything is the testimony of his oponents and the damage he inflicted on them. George Foreman fought a lot of punchers into the 90s and he still has nightmares about that hook that Frazier missed his head with "like a bulet pinging past your head". George Chuvalo still has steel plates in the front of his face from where Frazier caved his maxilla in.

 

frazier would chop him down.when he was at his bobbing and weaving best he was beautiful to watch.his band, the knockouts were good too.

 

I would rather get a headbutt from Holyfield, than Joe Frazier's left hook

 

That is total bull**** Ali would never have had an easy time beating Frazier who he has always stated as his hardest opponent. And Frazier was further from his prime the Ali was and he still pushed him to his absolue limit. Bottom line Frazier gave Ali his toughest two fights don't try to down play what Joe did in Manila by saying Ali could have taken him out easily if he were a few pounds lighter.

 

Pure speculation again....

Cosidering the size differences of both Frazier and Holyfield, they both spent their careers often fighting larger men.

Holyfields biggest KO may have been that of an unfit Buster Douglas, where as Fraziers greatest knockdown may have been that of Ali.

Both men had a maissive punch output in all rounds, yet neither assumed great KO effiency via single punch KO's.

Perhaps both men were a generation too late.

 

Frazier has more power, based on the truth that Evander was a blown up light heavy/cruiserweight fighter.

Evander has pretty good power in both hands, but I give Frazier a distinct advantage in terms of overall power.

 

Respect to you for your post and your opinion Mr Bill.

I think the arguments with respect to Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton regarding conditioning is related to overall body growth, wear and tear and the physical effects of absorbing continuous punishment as a pro athelete.

First of all, I firmly believe that a prime conditioned Frazier having his weight between 203 - 205.5 lbs would have done significantly better against Foreman in 1973. Logically, I don't think Frazier was capable of physically lowering his weight to his prime condition based on the health problems he accumulated throughout his career. The same thing goes for Ali. Many on this forum believe that the best years of Ali are a mystery which is highly believable, considering his exile. To say that Ali wasn't prime against Frazier in the FOTC, is not out of the ordinary because he was faster of hand and foot before his exile. However, he wasn't as far off as many people say he was and he did get his weight down to 214 lbs for the FOTC. Like Frazier, I don't think Ali could achieve the weight he was accustomed to during his first championship years.

Neither fighter was ever the same after the FOTC, but I'd say Ali became a smarter boxer and discovered things about himself that he wouldn't have if it wasn't for Frazier, Norton and George Foreman. Ali displayed a toughness for taking punches that was pretty much a non-issue in the 60's because he was rarely hit cleanly. Also, he sat down on his punches a lot more in the 70's because he couldn't move as quick on his feet and was therefore forced to fight.

As for Manilla, there are varying opinions on what happened in the corner before the end of the fight. I disagree with you that Futch saved Frazier from a knockout. In fact, I believe it could have been the other way around. Which is why I firmly believe that Ali wanted to quit in the 14th round, when he uttered the famous words, repeated by Dr. Pacheco to "cut these things off, I ain't going back out there, that man's crazy."

Others on this forum say Ali said this in the 10th, some say the 11th, some say the 12th, some say the 13th, some say the 14th and I've even heard some people say it was the 7th round. I believe the logical answer is the 14th because the man completely punched himself out and was hitting Frazier with everything he had left. Only Dundee was the only person in the corner ignoring Ali's surrender. Frazier was willing to go out on his shield and had to be forced to sit down by Futch. Willie Monroe who some on this forum don't even know was a fighter, is completely discredited by the same people on this forum based on what he saw took place in the corner of Ali at ringside. Monroe said that Ali quit in the 14th round, which is why he ran to the other corner to get Padilla's attention before he stopped the fight.

Either way, Manilla was a great fight for both fighters and Joe wasn't as badly behind on points as most people say.

 

Horse Manure......... Ali at 214 lbs. toyed with Frazier at 209 lbs. in the '74 rematch...... And, it is a fact that Ali was NOT in the best of shape for his rubber match with J.F. over in Manila.... Ali thought Frazier was washed up....... Sure, Ali was tired and ready for the fight to end after the 10th rd., but that was because he was also heavy at 224 1/2 pounds in '75...... Okay, even Joe Frazier was considered a tad puffy at his weight of 215 1/2 pounds, as well... Still, Joe Frazier carried it well in Manila up until the 12th rd.... Joe Frazier ate some serious "Big Mac" type rights and lefts from Ali in rds 13 and 14..... YES! The fight in Manila was great / classical........

MR.BILLbbb