Power = Speed X Mass

I think 'mass * speed' can give the illusion that you just have to look for the weight of a fighter and how speedy their punches seem.

This makes one miss the fact that 'mass' here means the mass that has been accelerated, so mostly the hand, maybe the lower arm. So something else is at play here and that is how much the fighter can put his body into the punch.

Parker with his overhand right locked his arm and shoulder to put the force of the right side of his body into the punch, losing a bit of speed compared to arm-punching but gaining a lot of mass. Here it helps a bit to be heavier.

But the george foreman kind of power (think moorer ko) comes from the conversion of energy that happens when you have a good stance, that enables you to rotate you hips which propels your upper body and thus you shoulder which you can accelerate on its own on top which in turn accelerates your arm and then you put an arm punch on top of that and if you trigger this chain of events with the right coordination you will put a whole lot of you body mass into the punch without losing but a little bit of hand speed. Then mass is maximized while losing little speed or reaction time. This chain of events is not really visible because it is done in fractions of a second and the parts are overlapping in time.

Bruce lee demonstrated it with his 1 inch punch. But you can imagine the extendesld arm at the last Point in time of a punch as a log of wood where bigger or smaller hammers are hammering on it. In this imagination the body with its coordinated movement is the hammer blow and the 'point of contact' is the shoulder. That is the force the Body can bring to a punch.

Another image would be doing a one handed pushup. Then its easy to see how much force is in the hand. Now imagine someone doing one handed jumping pushups but coming down he rotates his hip and body into the floor contact, in effect taking weight off his feet for the moment of this impulse. Then it is easier to see that the mass in the weight that comes to the floor on the hand changes, not only the speed.

So 'mass' is not body mass but how much of your body you can put into the punch. Coordination/ kinetic chain is everything.

Just sometimes there are crazy good arm punchers like Bakole. That is impressive to me

 

Yep, lots of things will effect how you transfer that power. Mobility for example, it's good to have flexibility to a certain extent but it can hamper power. If your joints flex more or hyper extend in more extreme cases, chances are you won't be able to transfer power as effectively. Probably why women don't punch as hard, they have elbows that hyper extend so when a punch lands power is lost through the excessive flexion of the elbow joint upon impact.

 

Go to a boxing gym 3-4 times a week at least lads and spend a few years dedicated to them heavy bags.

That will help more than trying to understand and explain a very complex thing that is yet unexplainable.

as stated by some other posters, there’s diff types of power, how much you can put your weight into shots, how explosive you can make your shots. Some power punch from their legs, others from shoulders, others from hips, but however it works it works. Boxing is about getting results.

is anybody on this forum a ko artist?

 

That formula of mass x velocity = momentum (not power).

tbh I thought you posed the discussion in an excellent way. The truth is there is no definitive answer to it. Increasing one’s own punch power through technique, hard work and psychology is definitely possible.

However the unexplainable is why some guys hit harder than others, this is a known x factor.

If 2 guys had identical training, dedication etc, they would still be different fighters and have different power. Hence boxing being an art not a science

a wilder type power is not trainable, otherwise we would have plenty of them. Every kid wants to ko people.

Ko power is an unexplainable phenomenon.

 

Direction, technique (which includes different areas i.e weight distribution one example is you can throw a back power hand by leveraging off your lead hip or you can explode from your back hip) even the position of your thumbs have an effect. There's loads to technique.
Timing, distance, accuracy and distribution of weight, I.e some fighters carry a higher % of fluids within there body composition, some have a higher bone density amonst other factors these are all key parts to punching.
We have a young one in our gym whos 14 year old novice. They punch like a mule. We have similar ones in weight and technique but they don't have 10% of that power.

You could have perfect mass and speed within a fighter but without the above, it just won't be effective.

We also have to consider brain and heart, this is a massive influence, if we are talking power punching in a fight. Hitting a bag or one of those punch machines is a different kettle of fish.

 

Technique above else. You don´t have to be "fast" to deliver a powerful punch, if you can put weight behind said punch.
Here is Big George showcasing precisely how to throw a powerful punch. Foreman puts his whole body into those punches, and lands with the knuckles. There is also a snapping motion just as he lands the punch, and he drives that punch through the bag. He does not use the snap to quickly recoil/pull back the hand. He is clearly not the fastest, but has enough speed to generate power.

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Here is Joshua showing similar technique, but notice how he uses the snap to bring his hand back, instead of punching through the target. But he still generates power because he turns his hips into the punches, and holds a strong center of gravity. So upon impact, he is powerful enough to drive his force into the bag, instead of being deflected.

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And lastly Conor Benn. Notice how half of the time his hips are stationary, and you can clearly see those punches have less of an impact on the bag.

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We have the application of physics but we also need to apply timing. A perfectly place and timed punch can cause more damage than one thrown obviously and with much more force. It's why for me 'punch machines' only measure the power of a punch, not its effectiveness. I'd argue that Tyson was demonstrably NOT the hardest hitter, the most powerful, but because of his impeccable punch placement, the torque of his punches, and his speed he was one of the most effective knockout artists. It's a bit like a car with lots of power and poor traction. Tyson used all of his power, the car with poor traction might be more powerful but it doesn't use it effectively.

 

More about bone density and structure than anything else. Speed and technique does help, but genetics play a massive factor in my opinion.

 

As stated previously, you won’t get a definitive answer as there are too many factors and variables many of which cannot simply be calculated by science.

 

Both have excellent power punching technique, and highly technical delivery systems.
People get confused at technique thinking there is only 1 form and it’s being Leonard (hearns had good power punch technique)

not only was technique important with the guys mentioned, but their psychology and intent are very important to being a power puncher too.
A perfect example is wilder who has turned into a softie and his punch has gone.

 

Exactly. Foreman was slow, Bakole, slow yet process power. Haney, Shakur are fast yet don't process great power. Technique matters a lot.

 

Big George wasn’t even that big either. neither was shavers who was also slow. Wilder wasn’t big but had speed, but so do many others who can’t develop that power

 

Yeah one of the things I've noticed about Foreman is his hip rotation when he punches, that along with throwing through the target, is possibly where much of his vaunted power came from.

And yes looking at Benn there, there is no real hip rotation, so doesn't matter of he plants his feet, the power from his feet and legs never fully transfers to his upper body because his static hips break the power chain from foot to fist.

 

Its not just about having the potential to generate power, its about being able to efficiently transfer it to your opponent without losing energy in the process via good technique. Also, you have to take into account that some people telegraph their punches more than others, meaning they're easier to see coming and therefore ride with.

There's probably some more obscure factors in the equation as well like bone structure and density and whatnot.