Pre sullivan fighters British vs US

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by butler08, Jul 7, 2009.


  1. butler08

    butler08 Active Member Full Member

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    Oct 18, 2008
    Could someone clear this up for me that pre sullivan where there was a clear undisputed champion was the champion of all England considered to be the best or was it the best from the US

    Please discuss
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    In the early 1800s the British title was the only one worth having and any ambitious American fighter would have aspired to the British title. This is why Tom Mollineux travelled across the pond to challenge Tom Cribb for the British title (usucesfully).

    As the American title grew in stature and became a relevant title in its own right talk began of a face off between the British and American champions to create a "World Champion". When Tom Sayers (British Champion) fought John C Heenan (American Champion) the fight was advertised and promoted in the press as being for the "world title". Unfortunately the fight ended in a draw so no world champion resulted from it.

    There were later atempts to match the British and American Champions to create a consensus world champion. Jem Mace (British Champion) was matched against the American Champion Joe Coburn in Ireland. The match was again billed as being a world title fight but it never came off due to disagreements about terms.

    Finaly Jem Mace fought and defeated the American Champion Tom Allen to gain general recognition as the first world champion.

    Mace defended his world title a few times and then retired leaving a vacum. It was argued in some quaters of the press that because Mace had conducted his world title defences in America that his vacated American title was in effect the world title. Many in Bitain disagreed and fighters continued to claim the British title.

    Tom Allen claimed the vacant American/World title and lost his claim to Joe Goss. Joe Goss lost his claim to Paddy Ryan who in turn lost it to John L Sullivan.

    The matter was generaly acepted as resolved when John L Sullivan defeated the British Champion (Charlie Mitchel). It was accepted that he had beaten Paddy Ryan whether it was for the American or world title claim and he had beaten Charlie Mitchel for any theoretical outstanding version of the Bitish title. Hence if you wanted to be the best heavyweight in the world there was nobody else worth challenging.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would add a footnote.

    Ben Caunt while British Champion challenged American Champion Tom Hyer but the challenge was not taken up.

    This fight could have created a world champion as early as 1841.
     
  4. butler08

    butler08 Active Member Full Member

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    Oct 18, 2008
    thanks janitor that clears up alot i recently read about the fight between Mollineux and Cribb which is what prompted my question
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The Cribb Molineux fight could be looked at as the first world title fight.

    Molineux claimed the American title but it is not clear how valid his claim was or indeed whether such a title existed.