Pre_Ring Magazine Year-end heavyweight ratings 1882-1922

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Mar 21, 2018.


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  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1882
    1-Sullivan
    2-Hadley
    3-Godfrey
    4-Kilrain
    5-C C Smith
    6-Grant
    7-Mitchell
    8-Cleary
    9-McCaffrey
    10-Eliott

    1883

    1-Sullivan
    2-Mitchell
    3-Godfrey
    4-Kilrain
    5-Miller
    6-Cleary
    7-Greenfield
    8-Hadley
    9-Woodson
    10-McHenry Johnson

    1884

    1-Sullivan
    2-McCaffrey
    3-Kilrain
    4-Burke
    5-Mitchell
    6-Farnan
    7-Cleary
    8-Godfrey
    9-Cardiff
    10-Thompson

    1885

    1-Sullivan
    2-McCaffrey
    3-Burke
    4-Mitchell
    5-Kilrain
    6-Cleary
    7-Cardiff
    8-Killen
    9-Godfrey
    10-Lees

    1886

    1-Sullivan
    2-Kilrain
    3-Cardiff
    4-Mitchell
    5-Burke
    6-McCaffrey
    7-Killen
    8-Godfrey
    9-Lannon
    10-Cleary

    1887

    1-Sullivan
    2-Kilrain
    3-Cardiff
    4-Killen
    5-Mitchell
    6-Burke
    7-Ashton
    8-Godfrey
    8-Jackson
    10-McAuliffe



    1888

    1-Sullivan
    2-Jackson
    3-Killeen
    4-Kilrain
    5-Cardiff
    6-Godfrey
    7-Burke
    8-Slavin
    9-McAuliffe
    10-Ashton

    1989

    1-Jackson
    2-Sullivan
    3-McAuliffe
    4-Godfrey
    5-Slavin
    6-Killen
    7-Cardiff
    8-Kilrain
    9-Ashton
    10-Goddard

    1890

    1-Jackson
    2-Slavin
    3-Goddard
    4-Godfrey
    5-Corbett
    6-McAuliffe
    7-Kilrain
    8-Choynski
    9-Killen
    10-Laing

    1891

    1-Jackson
    2-Corbett
    3-Slavin
    4-Goddard
    5-Kilrain
    6-Godfrey
    7-McAuliffe
    8-Choynski
    9-Laing
    10-Maher

    1892

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Goddard
    4. Slavin
    5. Choynski
    6. Fitzsimmons
    7. Hall
    8. Godfrey
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Kilrain


    1893

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Denver Smith
    5. Hall
    6. Goddard
    7. Slavin
    8. Choynski
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Godfrey

    1894

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Smith
    5. Choynski
    6. Maher
    7. Goddard
    8. Hall
    9. Slavin
    10. Godfrey

    1895

    Champion Maher
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3. Jackson
    4. Slavin
    5. Smith
    6. Choynski
    7. Felix
    8. Hall
    9. Creedon
    10. O’Donnell

    1896

    Champion Corbett
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3. Maher
    4 Choynski
    5. Sharkey
    6. Armstrong
    7. Creedon
    8. Goddard
    9. Ruhlin
    10. O’Donnell


    1897

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Maher
    3. Sharkey
    4. Choynski
    5. Childs
    6. Corbett
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Jeffries
    9. O’Donnell
    10. Armstrong

    1898

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Jeffries
    3. Sharkey
    4. Maher
    5. Corbett
    6. McCoy
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Childs
    9. Armstrong
    10. Choynski

    1899

    Champion Jeffries
    2. Sharkey
    3. Fitxsimmons
    4. Maher
    5. McCoy
    6. Corbett
    7. Kennedy
    8. Ruhlin
    9. Childs
    10. Martin


    1900

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Corbett
    4 McCoy
    5 Ruhlin
    6 Sharkey
    7 Childs
    8 Maher
    9 Kennedy
    10 Martin

    1901

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Ruhlin
    3 McCoy
    4 Childs
    5 Sharkey
    6 Root
    7 Martin
    8 Maher
    9 Griffin
    10 Gardner

    1902

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Ruhlin
    4 Martin
    5 Johnson
    6 Gardner
    7 O’Brien
    8 Root
    9 Hart
    10 Carter

    1903

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Johnson
    4 Ruhlin
    5 Gardner
    6 Root
    7 Hart
    8 O’Brien
    9 Armstrong
    10 McVey

    1904

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Johnson
    3 Hart
    4 Root
    5 O’Brien
    6 Gardner
    7 Ruhlin
    8 Ferguson
    9 Martin
    10 McVey

    1905

    Champion Hart
    2 Johnson
    3 O’Brien
    4 Jeanette
    5 Root
    6 Fitzsimmons
    7 Ruhlin
    8 Kaufman
    9 J Twin Sullivan
    10 Schreck

    1906

    Champion Burns
    2 Johnson
    3 O’Brien
    4 Langford
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 Kaufman
    8 Schreck
    9 Hart
    10 Ruhlin

    1907

    Champion Burns
    2 Johnson
    3 Kaufman
    4 Langford
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 O’Brien
    8 Schreck
    9 Jim Flynn
    10 Sullivan

    1908

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Kaufman
    4 Burns
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 O’Brien
    8 Hart
    9 Ross
    10 Schreck

    1909

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Jeanette
    4 McVey
    5 Kaufman
    6 Ketchell
    7 O’Brien
    8 Ferguson
    9 Lang
    10 Schreck

    1910

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Jeanette
    4 McVey
    5 Kaufman
    6 Burns
    7 Lang
    8 Jim Flynn
    9 Dan Flynn
    10 Curran

    1911

    champion Johnson
    2 McVey
    3 Langford
    4 Jeanette
    5 Wells
    6 Jim Flynn
    7 Al Palzar
    8 Carl Morris
    9 Dan Flynn
    10 Clarke

    1912

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Jeanette
    4 McVey
    5 Gunboat Smith
    6 Willard
    7 Ross
    8 Mc Carthy
    9 Jim Flynn
    10 Palzar

    1913

    Champion Johnson
    2 Smith
    3 Langford
    4 Jeanette
    5 McVey
    6 Jim Johnson
    7 Pelkey
    8 Willard
    9 Moran
    10 Carpentier

    1914

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Jeanette
    4 McVey
    5 Carpentier
    6 Clarke
    7 Dillon
    8 Wills
    9 Levinsky
    10 Coffey

    1915

    Champion Willard
    2 Johnson
    3 Moran
    4 Dillon
    5 Wills
    6 McVey
    7 Jeanette
    8 coffey
    9 Langford
    10 Morris

    1916

    CHAMPION Willard
    2 Wills
    3 Miske
    4 Dillon
    5 Morris
    6 Levinsky
    7 Moran
    8 Weinert
    9 McVey
    10 Jeanette

    1917

    Champion Willard
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Langford
    5 Norfolk
    6 Miske
    7 Greb
    8 Dempsey
    9 Jeanette
    10 Gibbons

    1918

    Champion Willard
    2 Wills
    3 Dempsey
    4 Fulton
    5 Gibbons
    6 Greb
    7 Miske
    8 Meehan
    9 Madden
    10 Jeanette

    1919

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Greb
    5 Gibbons
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Johnson
    9 Norfolk
    10 Brennan

    1920

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Greb
    5 Gibbons
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Norfolk
    9 Tunney
    10 Weinert

    1921

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Gibbons
    5 Greb
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Tunney
    9 Beckett
    10 Brennan

    1922

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Greb
    4 Gibbons
    5 Miske
    6 Tunney
    7 F.Johnson
    8 Brennan
    9 Beckett
    10 Carpentier

    1923

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Firpo
    4 Tunney
    5 Carpentier
    6 Miske
    7 Gibbons
    8 Greb
    9 Renault
    10 F.Johnson
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 21, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 21, 2018
    #1
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  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The 1892 on ratings I did some time ago, could be a few changes, errors and omissions in them. All comments welcome.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 21, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 21, 2018
    #2
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Great stuff,now saved in my favourites!
     
    mcvey, Mar 22, 2018
    mcvey, Mar 22, 2018
    #3
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  4. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i will definitely look at some of these contenders when i get time. in the meantime, starting at the top, i was wondering why you see Hadley and Godfrey ahead of Kilrain.
     
    Boilermaker, Mar 22, 2018
    Boilermaker, Mar 22, 2018
    #4
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  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Neat.

    Mitchell should probably be rated in 1889 for his fight with Sullivan
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Mar 22, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Mar 22, 2018
    #5
  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    First--thank you very much for putting this together and sharing it with us.
    Comments--

    1--one thing which jumps out at me is that Sam Langford was never the top-ranked black fighter. It went from Johnson to Wills.

    2--your ratings give a lift to Jeffries. He was defending against the top-rated guys from 1899 to 1902. He was poised (and to a degree achieved) a really impressive historical rating, but shot himself in the foot on that issue by drawing the color line.

    3--Harry Wills was the #1 contender all the way from 1916 to 1925 (including The Ring ratings) but never got a title shot from Willard or Dempsey.

    4--Willard was pretty unimpressive prior to the fight with Johnson. He is not even in the 1914 ratings.
     
    edward morbius, Mar 22, 2018
    edward morbius, Mar 22, 2018
    #6
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  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I pretty well ignored LPR except to denote activity.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    #7
  8. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As I said elsewhere 1882 is my shakiest selections but all three were in the early days of their careers, and had shared draws. Hadley had the more extensive career at that point, so I rated him over Godfrey, who in turn had done little of note at that point except draw with Godfrey. I seriously considered putting Miller in there but left him out due to inactivity.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    #8
  9. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is so often threads on black versus white fighters during the color line era that it is interesting to note the highest rated black heavyweights. I don't know enough about 1880's fighters to comment, so I'll start with Peter Jackson. These are the top-rated black fighters, including the early years of The Ring ratings:

    Peter Jackson--8 years (1888-1895)
    Bob Armstrong--1 year (1896)
    Frank Childs--5 years (1897-1901)
    Denver Ed Martin--1 year (1902)
    Jack Johnson--13 years (1903-1915)
    Harry Wills--11 years (1916-1926)
    George Godfrey--3 years (1927-1929)
    Larry Johnson--1 year (1930)
    none rated--2 years (1931 & 1933)
    Larry Gains--1 year (1932)
    Joe Louis--15 years (1934-1948)

    How many arguably were the best out there?

    Jackson--a good case at least for a few years, but not overwhelming as he didn't beat Corbett.
    Johnson--of course, but from what time? His loss to Hart weakens his case prior to 1905, although that decision might have been questionable.
    Wills--the strongest case that he was the best for a number of years. The Dempsey legend clouds this issue.
    Godfrey--losses to Sharkey and Risko make it hard to rate him the best during the late 1920's.
    Gains--the win over Carnera shows he might have made it to the title during a weak era, but he doesn't seem to have stood out among the contenders.
    Langford (and perhaps McVea & Jeannette)--might have been better than the aging Johnson in the last couple of years of his reign.

    *the color line was only partial up to the Johnson era, and I think the record bears out Fitz and Jeff being the best out there during their reigns. The nearly complete color line after Johnson really clouds Dempsey and to a lesser extent Tunney. By the 1930's the color line was so complete that American black fighters hardly appear in the ratings from 1930-1933, until Joe Louis finally brought it down.
     
    edward morbius, Mar 22, 2018
    edward morbius, Mar 22, 2018
    #9
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  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would add the caveat that the black fighters might have rated higher if they had secured certain fights or if they had not, in some cases, the handcuffs on. The ratings are purely result/performance based and as far as possible free from bias, fighters potential, hindsight or public perception.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 22, 2018
    #10
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I agree its a good effort. Matt agrees with what I have been saying for years, as champion Johnson avoided the top 4 contenders from 1909-1914, sometimes top 5 to top 6 contenders.

    And he drew with the #6 and #7 contenders

    The highest rated man he beat as champion was Kaufman ( #5 in 1909 ).
     
    Mendoza, Mar 22, 2018
    Mendoza, Mar 22, 2018
    #11
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything, I'm just supplying ratings as I see them!

    Good points. Godfrey might have had a shout in the early 1880's too.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
    #12
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  13. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Good lists. I have a few issues with it, particularly 1916, 18, 19, and 20. But nothing major. Fun to consider.
     
    klompton2, Mar 23, 2018
    klompton2, Mar 23, 2018
    #13
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  14. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Look at tunney, slowly creepin up there.
     
    Grapefruit, Mar 23, 2018
    Grapefruit, Mar 23, 2018
    #14
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd be interested to hear your musings.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
    #15
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