Premature coronation: might it be that *none* of the lightweight "four kings" end up HOF worthy?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 28, 2021.

Who could still become great?

  1. Teófimo Andrés "El Brooklynero/The Takeover" López Jr.

    34.7%
  2. Devin Miles "The Dream" Haney

    36.7%
  3. Gervontaa Brown "Tank" Davis

    61.2%
  4. Ryan "The Flash/King" García

    30.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Teófimo Andrés "El Brooklynero/The Takeover" López Jr. was the first domino to fall, exposed last night. Now, don't get me wrong, this isn't to detract from George Kambosos Jr.'s achievement or suggest that he isn't deserving of being a world champ right now. The fact remains, however, that he was relatively green and unproven with his only (barely) world class opposition coming in his previous two bouts - split decisions over Bey and Selby, both in their career twilights. GKJ was always more respectable a challenger than some gave him credit for being, and yet he shouldn't have been able to do what he did if López was really on that elite-tier pedestal erected for him and the other three "kings" by some fans.

    A year ago
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    . That was probably just recency bias due to his upset over Lomachenko having just taken place a couple of weeks before that survey thread was made. Some of
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    . In either case, it boils down to a savvy bit of razzmatazz from boxing journos; the difference is that with Hagler, Leonard, Hearns and Durán you had a quadrangular rivalry in which each corner was held by an unquestionable ATG. This...isn't that. Re-coining it for these lightweights is a cheap attention ploy, a lazy attempt to drum up buzz and sensationalize the fact, during a downtime in the sport's mainstream appeal (relative to forty years ago, with the over-saturation culture of the internet and other combat sport alternatives) that a division happens to simultaneously have a few remote possibilities for greatness.

    Here are the remaining would-be claimants to royalty.

    1. Gervonta(a) Brown "Tank" Davis - 25-0 (24). WBA champ at 135lbs. Taking on Isaac Jonathan Cruz González in his second defense a week from today.
    2. Devin Miles "The Dream" Haney - 26-0 (15). WBC champ at 135lbs. Taking on Joseph Pedroza "Jo-Jo" Díaz Jr. in his third defense this coming Friday.
    3. Ryan "The Flash/King" García - 21-0 (18). Former interim WBC champ, supposed to have faced Díaz in October. Nothing lined up, inactive nearly 1yr.
    Who is next to be deposed? Will any of them even finish in the lightweight top 50 all time when all is said and done? (bear in mind,
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    . Pretty intimidating even at the lower end...)
     
  2. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    someone will, but it's an indictment that it's left up to who wants to fight who.
    boxing has turned into baby **** because of this.

    gervonta davis is in pole position for me.
    his commitment to his punches reminds me of mike tyson.
     
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  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    I'm not saying none of them can ever lose or arguing in favor of modern boxing's "protect the zero" culture. I'm saying that any of them getting schooled by huge underdogs makes it hard to justify using that lofty and historied name for their grouping. Making out like they are generational talents whose only possible foils are one another, that has always rung false to me. And starting with last night, the drapery has begun to fall...and you love to see it. :D
     
  4. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone Full Member

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    If they don't lose the ego then none of them will be HOFer they need to fight each other atleast. I don't see anyone of them as weight jumpers so they will need to be become undisputed.
     
  5. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    don't get me wrong, i have to pay huge respects to teo for taking the kambosis fight, but i feel that he thought it would be a bump in the road instead of a major road block.
    it wasn't.
     
  6. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He thought it would be a cakewalk.
     
  7. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    100% he did.
     
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  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    I've low-key always thought all of them have been overrated by casuals and diehards alike since their names started to grow in stature and become linked together. None of them is pure upside.

    I'd say my read of their respective h2h value is as follows:

    1. García - used to regard him as mollycoddled and the worst of the bunch. Has improved loads and elevated his skill level to match his speed and power. He is legit, but - not ready to anoint him with ATG potential yet. He needs to keep stepping up and performing well.
    2. Haney - the most boring of them all by far with his Mayweatheresque style, but his boxing is undeniably top class. He doesn't have the charisma, offensive mindset or explosiveness of KingRy, but he might be superior in every other respect and has fewer overall flaws in his game. They're really more like 1a and 1b.
    3. López - turns out, he is the kind of limited boxer-slugger weight-bully he struck many of us as being pre-Lomachenko. That win flattered him tremendously. It had perhaps more to do with Lomachenko a) having a shorter prime than some hoped with a decent chunk of it left behind in his lengthy amateur run and b) not being optimally suited to lightweight (as we already kind of knew) than it did with López being some revelation transmogrifying himself before our very eyes in a single night.
    4. Davis - yeah, he's the one boasting the best résumé and most one-shot KO power. But he's also the most one-dimensional IMO (yes more than López). His success is attributable to being a southpaw and something of a weight bully himself, and having that bail-out power. He's the one I can see being defeated by the most versatile stylistic arrays, so long as the comers have the chin to hang with him.
     
  9. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    davis' committment to his punches really impressses me.
    garcia has speed and power, but he doesn't seem to be able to take a punch. tank destroys him imo.
    i'm on team davis right now.
     
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Is that just because Luke Campbell put him down? That isn't really a scathing indictment for me. Or were there other red flags that you've seen?
     
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  11. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    it's never a red flag when people step up, but it's hard not to get a hard on with davis' love of fighting and his undeniable power
     
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  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    I just think he fell in love with that power too much and kind of plateaued in his development.
     
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  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Not sure why they were anointed ''The Four Kings'' in the first place

    Lopez is the only one of them who actually did something of note and he's a massive weight bully who only took the fight because he's way bigger than natural 126 pounder Loma

    'He’s better off at 130 or 126. “I think that 135 is too heavy for him. I think that he’s too sluggish at 135. But let’s see, man. Let’s see what this whole one-year rest does for him.

    “I’m a big 135 pounder. I can be fighting at 140 right now. I’m very comfortable at this weight. Everything that this man does do that they say, he’s decreasing. I’m not even in my prime yet and I’m out here just outdoing guys. He’s on his way out, and it’s showing. Your body can only take so much damage, and I guarantee you we’re going to put some damage on this man.”

    “He’s on the way out of the sport and 135 is just too big ,” the Honduran-American said.

    Lomachenko, 32, started his career in 2013 as a 126-pounder. Lopez, 23, has fought at 135 since he turned pro in 2016.

    ''I think that he's on his way out. I really do believe that and 135 is just too much of a big weight class for him''

    ''If you look at the Luke Campbell fight, you can see there is just a lot of wear-and-tear on his body.

    “I look at it like this—maybe this whole COVID-19 year helped him out. Maybe he needed it. That way he can probably at least hang in there a little bit with me. It’s going to be a great fight. I just look at the facts. You see a fighter who has gone up in weight class. Sometimes they go up too much where their body isn’t used to it, or the weight class is too big for them.''

    “This man has had over 400 fights. I have over 150 fights. I’m 23. I’m going to tell you this, when I get to camp, oh man, my body aches sometimes. If I’m 23 and dealing with stuff at this age, I can only imagine what he must be going through at 32 with over 400 fights.”

    ''I'm not going to have a 126 pounder come out here and try and take over on me. I'm a big guy''

    “A lot of people talk very highly about him. But if you look at it, there were so many mistakes he made against Luke Campbell. Loma tries too hard to make everybody think he can still do it, even though he’s 32 years old.

    Interviewer: ''Lomachenko is small for the weight class''

    Teofimo: ''Very!''

    ''No 126 pounder is beating my son'' --Teofimo Lopez Sr.

    Day of the weigh in

    Lopez looking like a sunken-eyed cadaver slurring his words, Loma looking the picture of health. Loma looked healthy on the scales down at 126 for goodness sake

    ''Skinny Fimo now, but then you get the monster tomorrow''

    ''By tomorrow I'm going to look like a different man. A whole new man''

    --Teofimo Lopez




    Twink's resume is pure PBC smoke and mirrors albeit he's very talented

    Already broken down in depth

    Haney, another massive weight bully, has only beaten a well past prime near 36 y/o inactive Linares who he's way bigger than and who hadn't fought in 15 months (keep that same energy), was 3-2 in his previous 5 fights, both loses via KO, one to an injured natural 126 pounder and he was badly hurt by Linares and saved by the bell. And he couldn't even wobble Linares even though the later had been stopped in all five of his other losses and has a reputation for being chinny.

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    Who else has he beaten? A shot beyond belief 39 y/0 tiny Cuban leprechaun's son Gamboa who he's way bigger than and who was always chinny even back during his prime and facing fighters his own size. Again, even though Gamboa has a reputation for being chinny, has been dropped in something like 10 or 11 separate fights and IIRC been down at least 20 times in total, and who should be 7-5 at 135, he couldn't even wobble him despite throwing everything bar the kitchen sink at him all night.

    Garcia's entire claim to fame is beating an inactive Luke Campbell in his backyard (Garcia's) who hadn't fought in like 17 months. Good win and stoppage but he was dropped heavily (albeit to be fair it was a good shot and contrary to what some believe Luke can really crack) and unlike Loma, who is a natural 126 pounder who was giving away huge physical advantages to Luke and a lot of weight, Garcia is a natural 135 at the very least with a very big and lengthy frame.

    People conveniently forget that Loma hurt the way bigger Campbell badly numerous times, dropped him, and the later had to hold on for dear life and rugby tackle Loma to the ground to avert getting stopped.

    Not saying ''The Four Kings'' aren't talented. They are but it's incredibly insulting to the real Four Kings to even mention their names in the same book as them, let alone the same chapter, page, paragraph or sentence given how little they've done and achieved and as I keep saying it's a different ballgame when you start facing world class fighters and champions your own size, let alone ones who are much bigger, longer, stronger, and more powerful than you. Completely different.
     
  14. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    there's a case for that, but davis' commitment to his punching power is both impressive and understandable
     
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The HoF is really hard to predict. Someone could make it in terms of standards then kill someone and no joy...someone could do the biz and have three bad back to back losses and nah, past prime or no. It's really difficult to predict.

    But it is possible, yeah.