Premature coronation: might it be that *none* of the lightweight "four kings" end up HOF worthy?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 28, 2021.

Who could still become great?

  1. Teófimo Andrés "El Brooklynero/The Takeover" López Jr.

  2. Devin Miles "The Dream" Haney

  3. Gervontaa Brown "Tank" Davis

  4. Ryan "The Flash/King" García

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PIPO23

    PIPO23 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    May 18, 2006
    All of the them including Shakur are hype job by the promoters and networks PBC and Dazn.
    Quina74 likes this.
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum: Reject The New Normal Staff Member

    Nov 23, 2013
    Nah, he'll be violently KO'd the first time he sets foot in the ring with an intelligent aggressive pressure fighter swarmer than actually knows how to cut off the ring against a southpaw. Most of the people he's fought to date, haven't been what I call heavy handed, and certainly aren't effective on the front foot. Loma, Tank, Lopez, maybe even JoJo all do a number on him. I think he'd also struggle mightily and maybe even lose against Isaac Cruz or William Zepeda if he moves up.
  3. Goose

    Goose Russian oligarch Full Member

    Mar 2, 2005
    Lopez can definitely do much better with a real trainer. It's amazing he got as far as he did with his dad. Time to get a real trainer and he can take over 140. Lopez definitely has a chance....he did beat Lomachenko afterall. But say bye bye to 135.

    Haney got rocked against Linares...not sure if it means much...but I'm less impressed with him than I was before Linares fight. If he can dispose of Diaz easily he maybe still a top dog. Then if he beats Loma, defends against someone like Shakur and moves and wins at 140 then possibly.

    Tank got the power, but can he even make 135? Him jumping to 140 probably means he isn't going back down again. Can he achieve anything noteworthy north of 135? Who knows....he only beat one guy so far.

    Shakur can definitely take over lightweight. Better boxing skills than almost anyone and enough power to keep fighters at bay. I'd love to see him against Loma. If he beats Loma, defends, and goes to 140-147 and beats big names he can be in HOF.

    Ryan Garcia......meh.
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    Nov 30, 2006
  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum: Reject The New Normal Staff Member

    Nov 23, 2013
    I scored it 116-112 Cruz, he rocked Tank on several occasions, and roughly 2/3rd's of the RBR also had it for Cruz or a draw. Olu and Pimp were adamant it was a Tank win though. Yeah, he was exposed badly, and should have taken an L.

    Although if you really want to be pissed as hell, watch Garcia-Fundora, I'm still steaming over that.
    Jackman65 and IntentionalButt like this.
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    Nov 30, 2006
    There was a Zhang Yimou flick that was set to disappear from Netflix after yesterday, so I watched that and then passed the **** out promptly at 10ish, kernels of popcorn in my beard and everything :lol: (possibly related to getting only 2hrs sleep on Saturday, just a hunch). I read through your RBR first thing...damn it. El Nino and Pitbull both got the old PBC "thanks for dropping by, foreigner" special in a twofer, eh? :ohno
    CST80 likes this.
  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum: Reject The New Normal Staff Member

    Nov 23, 2013
    Which one was it? Yeah, so did Derevyanchenko. Maybe my scorecard was a bit too generous by a point, but at best Adames should have gotten a draw or lost by one point. There weren't more than 5 rounds you could give him with a good conscience. So it was a threefer.:mad:
  8. Jackman65

    Jackman65 Oh yeah, FJB! Full Member

    Aug 31, 2019
    Tank lost to a smaller guy last night or at least got a draw if you are feeling charitable. Haney didn’t look particularly dominant against a featherweight who had no business at 135. I’d like to see these two fight each other. It’s a 50-50 fight, probably the first for either.

    Haney is in the conversation as an opponent for Kambosos’ first title defense. Should be a good fight and, in Austraila, I’d favor George. Between his iron chin and the Aussie judges, the guy who beats him is going to have to earn it. Haney is feather fisted but is a good boxer with great size. I don’t see him taking a decision from George in Sydney and he ain’t knocking him out.

    Tank hasn’t been discussed as an opponent for George, and something tells me Floyd isn’t going to risk those Aussie judges with his meal ticket. Davis ain’t getting a gift from the Aussie judges like he got last night. Also, George moves well and has already beaten Lopez, a fighter who has much more talent and a much better resume than Tank. Tank holding the belts hostage would be a disaster for boxing. He would do his best to avoid real competition as he has done with his pretend belt. I hope this never happens because I’m a boxing fan and want to see champs who aren’t afraid to face challengers.

    Lastly, after seeing Tank and Haney fight this weekend (separately of course), if either fought Stevenson, my money would be on Stevenson. He’s a better overall fighter and is still developing. He might be the future at 135 when he moves to the weight. He has something I don’t see in Tank or Haney but it’s still early and I’m looking forward to seeing these guys prove me right or wrong in the ring.
    gollumsluvslave likes this.
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    Nov 30, 2006
    Shadow. It was stylish as expected, but...odd. Humor dropped in at weird times, and then emotional scenes played straight juxtaposed with anime-like fantasy elements (nothing supernatural, just anachronistic at best if not wildly unrealistic) and over the top violence.

    The martial arts choreography and some of the set pieces were gorgeous, and there's a scene where a woman and her bitter snarling deranged sickly cuck husband (the disgraced former bad ass military commander who secretly lives in an underground cavern for a year after losing a duel to the movie's Big Bad™, his counterpart from the rival kingdom, and whose ugly sabre wound on his chest got infected so that he's basically slowly dying from it with his appearance aged by decades and his body twisted so that he's now a useless pussy, causing him to hire a body double - the titular "shadow", a lookalike his uncle found as a young waif and tortured for years in a dungeon for just a contingency - to portray him in court to keep up appearances, and ...of course, predictably fall in love with the kindly wife) both know each other's schemes, and yet instead of confronting each other they angrily play a zither duet which is basically like dueling banjos, intercut with one of the big anticipated one-on-one battles...and it's just ****ing chaotic and (intentionally or not) hilarious.

    Oh and speaking of music - except when people are playing the zither, THERE IS NONE. Very weird creative decision, because it isn't the kind of film where that doesn't feel awkward.

    Overall it's very pretty, a little ridiculous, and VERY Chinese, is the best way to put it. Lots of Tai Chi symbols and masculine/feminine water/fire duality wank, etc. It also has a very bleak and nihilistic outlook, kind of Shakespearean crossed with a touch of Mike Nichols. Except with everyone speaking Mandarin and spinning umbrellas made of blades. :lol:

    I don't regret catching it while it was available, especially since I have a collector's mentality when it comes to my favorite directors, but it definitely wouldn't rank among his best. Just wish I'd been more awake for the second half.

    ****! So two guys I really like got shafted and, while Cruz wasn't exactly my boy the way you and @Drew101 had faith in him, I'm definitely rooting against Tank in 99% of cases, the shameless Haymon investment protection wagon rolls on. Yeah, probably just as well the sandman came for me, that much Premier bull**** in one card wouldn't have been good for my blood pressure.
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  10. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum: Reject The New Normal Staff Member

    Nov 23, 2013
    Yeah, I saw that summer of 2020 when I binged a slew of Zhang's films after Covid started. I agree with pretty much everything you said. It was middling for him, although I did love the gruesome ending, the umbrellas rolling down the hilly road, and the whole standoff and fight at the damn. But overall it was a little too bleak and nihilistic as you said, for my liking. As cheesy as it was, I think I prefer The Great Wall to it. Definitely thought Flowers Of War was better.

    Yeah, it was painful, especially considering the fact that Sergiy looked bad at the press conference the other day, like he had the onset of some neurological issues, his voice was ultra shaky and he seemed a little twitchy, almost like he was getting over Covid and looked on the verge of myoclonic jolts. He was sluggish as hell to start with, and it took him about 4 rounds to get going, but damn, when he finally got his motor running, he had Adames holding on for dear life for the last two rounds. Had it been a 12 rounder, Adames would've been KO'd.
    Jackman65 and IntentionalButt like this.
  11. Olu G. Rotimi

    Olu G. Rotimi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    May 29, 2007
    Not all Kings. I have it on authority Ryan Garcia is a Queen.
  12. The Akbar One

    The Akbar One Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Dec 1, 2007
    Davis is looking suspect and still ducking Lomachenko.
    Jackman65 likes this.
  13. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 24, 2004
    Let's compare these four LW "kings" to some former LW the same career level:

    Roberto Duran
    Joe Gans
    Pernell Whittaker
    Benny' Leonard
    Sugar Ray Leonard
    Alexis Arguello
    Manny Pacquiao

    Can ANY of these four "kings" carry the jockstrap of ANY of these four "kings"?

    This is not a Golden Age of lightweight champs. It's a Golden Age of hype.
  14. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    I really liked Shadow, especially its cinematography and score. The sparse use of music and shadow added to its tension. Some obvious but well rendered Shakespearian overtones in the film, especially during the climax. Plus the scenes of the weaponized umbrellas rolling down the hill in the rain is an all time image. Not one of Zhang's best. but still a solid 8 or so out of 10 from me.

    Had it 115-113 Davis. Could get to a draw, maybe 115-113 Cruz at a stretch, controlled most of the second third with movement and then maneuvered his way though capturing the 12th with one hand to seal the win on my card. Pretty much the result I was expecting, to be honest.

    Tank showed pretty good mobility and kept his composure, so I'll give him credit where it's due. Cruz brought enough to the table to make him wilt had he not had at least some ice in his veins. Cruz's approach is (or at least seems) basic, but he displayed good head movement, some nice shot selection, a pretty tight guard, and was pretty good at varying the intensity of his bull rushes throughout the fight. Plus, his chin's ridiculous. I figured he was a legit top 10 guy who would be a tough out for anyone at the weight, and I think this fight validated my opinion.
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    Nov 30, 2006 do know you can literally vote that way as it's set up, right? :dunno (which renders an option "E" unnecessary)

    Even if you didn't realize what the square checkboxes instead of the circular radio buttons meant, it says under the poll "Multiple votes are allowed."
    Hanz Cholo likes this.