Prime Ali & Holmes vs Wilder

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Dec 2, 2018.



  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    12,194
    8,039
    Sep 21, 2017
    Bruno looks alot smaller and less intimidating than he used to
     
  2. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    12,194
    8,039
    Sep 21, 2017
    Yes but that doesn't take away from the times that he was decked and survived. Only a prime Mike Tyson was able to finish Holmes. Even almost 2 decades past his prime, he got up to beat Butter bean to a decision. Granted, I'm not comparing Butterbean to Wilder, but I am pointing out his excellent recovery abilities. Even in his early 50s, Holmes still was able to recover from a hard, flush right hand. I can agree that it would be fair to give Wilder a punchers chance, but in the event that Holmes is floored, I think he'd get up like Fury did.
     
  3. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    12,194
    8,039
    Sep 21, 2017
    Imagine the pre fight antics of Ali/Wilder....LOL
     
  4. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,317
    477
    Jan 28, 2007
    I get your point but he didn't really go down against Butterbean though. It was a botched call when Larry slipped without a punch landing.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    53,668
    32,410
    Feb 11, 2005
    Good insights, Pat. I agree.
     
    Pat M likes this.
  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,903
    7,581
    Mar 17, 2010
    Could you point to examples of Wilders much superior speed to Foremans? As well as his stamina?

    If you have Zaire in mind, remember, Ali laid on the ropes. Foreman didn't get tired chasing a prime Ali around the ring.
    He got tricked by a genius who was tougher than anyone.

    I have often referred to todays era in boxing as a potential new golden age.
    I think the heavyweight division is electric with tons of awesome talent. Especially the top 3.
    And would never refer to todays division as a weak one.

    But to say a 70s Foreman would be inadequate in todays division? What? No.
     
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,570
    1,936
    Aug 26, 2004
    Funny thing is I saw it posted that Wilder weighed 202 lbs not 212lbs as listed fight night so Fury may have outweighed him by 55lbs, yet while Fury was the far better boxer and mover it was Wilder who had the sick power
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  8. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,271
    4,642
    Jan 19, 2016
    How about Ali - Fury?
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  9. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,839
    6,255
    Nov 22, 2014
    Wilder’s weight is mostly due to his irregular eating habits. Anber is the only person in Wilder’s inner circle that doesn’t seem afraid to criticize him. After the the first Stiverne fight Anber convinced Wilder to get a personal chef and nutritionist, which I think did wonders for him, but Wilder got rid of the nutritionist and chef after the Arreola fight, since he claimed to not see any benefits.

    Wilder himself said that sometimes he’ll go an entire day without eating during camp. Dempsey also used to do this, since he said it gave the body a chance to rest, but I don’t agree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  10. DonTyson

    DonTyson Active Member Full Member

    1,010
    1,478
    Dec 2, 2018
    No he didn’t
     
  11. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,271
    4,642
    Jan 19, 2016
    I agree to a point, bummy. I think there are major asterisks over Larry's greatness insofar as he didn't have a great straight right, didn't have a good left hook and didn't clean out his division but he did fight some big right hand punchers in Shavers, Bonecrusher and 'Spoon, all three of whom hit arguably harder than the guys that you point out he avoided.
     
  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,570
    1,936
    Aug 26, 2004
    Shavers was a very hard puncher but lost by KO to Quarry,Stander,Lyle and was outpointed by average guys like Bob Stallings, I think Shavers biggest problem was stamina but I give Holmes credit for getting off the floor, Bonecrusher had 14 fights and Spoon had 15 fights. Punchers like Weaver were powerful and Holmes avoided a unification fight with Weaver but when Holmes fought Weaver he was an 18-9 Big underdog and that Holmes fight encouraged Weaver. Still Page, Tate, Thomas & Dokes were better boxers and experienced much like M.Spinks but Spinks fought his 1st fight as a heavyweight vs Holmes and won.

    I really thought Larry may have been the best of his era but I really wanted him to prove it so I was very disapointed and wanted to see him rematch tough fights and unify.

    ATG's like Louis, Marciano, Ali always fought the best as Champion and rematched tough fights....unfortunately Holmes did not, he missed too many of the top guys Tate, Page,Thomas,Coetzee,Dokes, and did not rematch controversial or tough fights like Norton, Weaver,Williams & Witherspoon

    I still rate Larry high but have to discount much because of his weak defenses much with fighters 10 fights Marvis, 10-2-2 Spinks (who was KO'd by Coetzee in 1 prior) 14 fight David Bey, 14 fight Bonecrusher, 13 fight Ocasio, 15 fight Witherspoon, Zanon,Evangelista, Scott Frank, Tex Cobb etc.

    People think im hard on Larry but I have to be real in the fact he avoided many of the best of his day and i feel he had a long window to fight them instead of them knocking off each other
     
    zadfrak, Berlenbach and Eddie Ezzard like this.
  13. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,271
    4,642
    Jan 19, 2016
    A good and fair response. Can't find too much to disagree with here.
     
  14. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    2,047
    1,581
    Apr 9, 2017
    Huh? Where did you see Wilder's weight listed as 202 pounds?
     
  15. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,436
    2,825
    Feb 18, 2012
    He did the Henry Cooper trick against the Greatest.......