Prime Ali vs Floyd Patterson (1965)

Let’s look at this, shall we?

Floyd proclaimed in the buildup to the fight his allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church, which brought us the Crusades (a religious war of aggression aimed at wiping out the entirety of the Islamic world) and which, we all know (and many have known over time) is probably the greatest protectorate of pedophiles in the history of mankind.

Ali was a member of the Nation of Islam, which was started in 1930 in Detroit and which spelled out its doctrine (The Muslim Program) in 1965, calling for freedom, justice, and end to violence and oppression (as well as from taxation) and for separation (their own land).

I don’t see anything in it about ending a race — that’s white propaganda for the most part: some may have advocated violence against a country that was carrying out racist violence against black people, but that wasn’t the doctrine.

There were advocates for black people to arm themselves — like freedom of religion, that’s protected by the constitution in the United States (maybe not the one Floyd lived in, but the one that was written down by the forefathers). When Black Panthers in California decided to exercise their constitutional right to bear arms, a governor named Ronald Reagan decided that maybe they ought to have some gun laws in his state to crack down on it, lol.

You’re talking about a movement and an organization (Nation of Islam) that owe their very existence to blatant, unwavering and institutionalized racism that tried to keep them down.

Look up the murder of black people in the USA during the Civil Rights movement (much more fresh in peoples’ minds than Nazi Germany) by people who used Christian imagery (the burning cross — the KKK cloaked itself in the church and often had their meetings in churches) by people who were DOING what you say the Nation of Islam was TALKING about.

Show me what the Nation of Islam did by way of what you accuse them of — now look up the history of Christianity and things done in the name of God and get back to me.

Floyd should have educated himself about the constitution of the United States of America. Freedom of religion is literally a major reason why the first European settlers came here, but Patterson chose to play religious bigot.

He refused to call Ali by his name saying it wasn’t the name he was born with ... but he adopted a child and changed his name from Tracy Harris to Tracy Harris Patterson ... hmmm.

Ali was the champion of the America of the constitution. Patterson was the champion of Archie Bunker’s America.

 

Ali did not have as much, but was still the fastest heavyweight in the world, both hand and foot.

 

LMAO! Why in the hell is Floyd the one who needs the “benefit of the doubt” here?

 

Never mind. Someone better lock this thread.

 

Can't take others' opinions?

 

On boxing, sure. This is a boxing forum. Not a political forum or a religious one.

 

I apologize then. I wasn't keeping up with this thread reply for reply, so it's not my place to say what I said.

 

Really good points, Pat, and I agree with the most part of it, save the reference to Floyd at the end.

I like Floyd Patterson and was trying to present a simplified view of how he might have seen it. But you're absolutely right in all of your other points. I'd like to try to present a reasoned argument against what you have written but a) it's a bit late and b), and much more relevantly, I don't fancy my chances arguing against someone who so clearly knows their stuff and is also coming at it from what I now believe, after reading your post, to be the higher moral ground.

 

I’m not sure if I’m being worked here or not but fair game.

I don’t think Floyd is a bad person but I do think he was one of a severely limited vision and worldview and I truly believe he was absolutely wrong.

 

No. I'm being sincere. It was a good post, well-informed and persuasive. I'll admit when I'm wrong and in this instance it was better to throw the towel in early and avoid getting a rinsing.

But I will leave the debate here. It has got political and I never debate politics among friends. It's a surefire way to fall out.

And this is a boxing forum. Gawd knows we have enough trouble keeping it on point. All the best, mate. I'll return the rinsing on a more boxing-related subject at a date tbc.

"Detroit! I will return!"

 

Good man.

Hard to discuss this without getting into race and politics and religion because this was not a ‘let’s act like we hate each other/disagree to sell some tickets thing’ — it was an ideological dispute surrounding a boxing match.

Thanks for taking the high road. I’ll endeavor to do the same.

 

[/QUOTE]But I will leave the debate here. It has got political and I never debate politics among friends. It's a surefire way to fall out.[/QUOTE]
That's a good policy.

 

Yes, as I pointed out above, a white fighter who was part of an organization that taught similar things about black people and Jews and other non whites that the NOI taught about whites, would not be tolerated. Even if they were technically a religious organization. Especially in today's climate. Usyk and Fury would be stripped of all their titles and be the latest victims of cancel culture.

And if say, a white fighter like Jack Dempsey had been a part of say a Christian group back in 1920, that taught the things about blacks that the NOI taught about whites, there'd probably be demands and petitions to remove him from the IBHOF and to have him posthumously stripped of his titles.

Ali was a great fighter and did good things, but he wasn't always the most noble.

 

Floyd had long sought a rematch with Ali, not so much for revenge, but for vindication that he was capable of doing better than he had in their first meeting. He was really 'up' for the rematch, as Howard Cosell noted as the rematch unfolded. Patterson was very disappointed that the fight was stopped on a cut, and Ali told him that he, too, felt bad about how it ended and that if a promoter could be found who would take the fight, he would fight him a third time. One judge had the fight scored even after six rounds. It would have been interesting to see how the fight would have went had it went the full twelve rounds.