Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson?

Frazier is not in the same class as Tyson when it comes to physical abilities and talent or even skill

The only thing he did better than Mike was probably going to the body

 

I pretty much agree with this assessment. Ali's kryptonite was the left hook... got floored by it multiple times in his career. But like you said, after 4-6 rounds Tyson is rendered almost useless.

And as many times as Ali got clocked, he could inexplicable get back up like he was tying his shoes. Ali got hit with some shots that would've destroyed most people.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CgCEnaQ0zI[/ame]

Go to 1:05. Are you ****ing serious lol. Ali was crazy man.

 

Anything after 67 is not prime Ali so can not be used in any 'H2H' logic or argument.


Ali of 64-67 had some of the most insane reflexes ever seen by any heavyweight. There is no chance a 64-67 Ali would have lost once to Frazier and go life and death with Frazier the third time. This is not to discredit Frazier, who is one of the best ever, but it's just facts.

Everything Frazier did against a past Prime Ali had a lot to do with Ali's diminished reflexes,speed,footwork,work rate, and overall athleticism.

We actually never saw Ali's true prime (most likely around 67-70).

 

No one beats a ----- "PRIME ALI".

 

It's a ****ing horrid comparison. They're almost nothing alike aside from being short, come-forward heavyweights. Frazier was a definitive inside fighter; Tyson was a mid-range puncher who did almost nothing inside other than rest in clinches, many of which he'd even initiate for the ref to break up and basically 'reset' the spacing he needed to fire off his combinations. The first jab Ali throws while leaving his head completely exposed is getting countered by a left hook and he's getting put on his ass, completely re-assessing how to go about the task.

If you want 60s Ali with the amazing speed and reflexes, you aren't also getting the punch resistance he showcased in heavier incarnations in the 70s. He didn't have it at that level.

 

"prime" Ali also was prone to getting knocked down. Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper and Doug Jones don't hit half as hard as prime Tyson.

 

Doug Jones knocked down Ali? not sure thats true at all. dont make **** up, mate.


So lets look at your remaining evidence -
1.Sonny Banks floored Ali, Ali immediately got up and floored the ****a out of the fight.
2. Henry Cooper floored Ali when Ali was waving at a film starlet. Ali came back and stopped him next round.

So your evidence seems to suggest that its Ali who stops people who are lucky enough to catch him unawares. Thus you have proved the opposite of your intention.

 

Mike Tyson in his prime was nothing short of incredible...a near perfect fighting machine with discipline, skill, astonishing work ethic, speed, power and the list goes on...i dont think people give the prime Tyson enough credit. Prime Tyson was probably one of the top 2 or 3 fighters that ever fought.

BUT i always thought absolute prime Ali had the speed, reflexes, tenacity, will and cunning to beat a Prime Tyson...just look at Ali in Liston 1...just mesemerizing in terms of speed and reflexes. He underestimated Cooper an took him lightly, even the commentator in that fight remarked that Ali seemed half aleep, so you cant use that as a comparison.

Ali by points with no knock downs on either side. Too fast and too ring savvy even at a young age when he was peaking ( we will never know his true peak as previously mentioned).

 

Tyson was never more than a 6 round fighter.
Even prime Tyson.

 

he won on points v several top hws.

 

Depends on Ali. If he fights a disciplined no risk stick and move fight, I think he gets a decision win based on skills and footwork. However, if he takes his typical risks and tries to absorb and dodge shots in order to land his best offense in return, he probably gets knocked out. Prime Mike is too fast to reliably dodge, and hits too hard to just absorb over rounds. Stick and move all night Tyson will get frustrated and lose. Ali has the ability to do this. Not many others could without probably getting worn down and caught eventually.

 

Ali by late stoppage. Tyson drops him early though and hurts him up until about round 5. After 5 rounds Mike goes one punch stalker mode and statrs standing straight up and Ali beats his ass all over. TKO in 11 or 12 for Ali.

 

That wasnt Ali in his prime.

 

i wonder what the payperview numbers would be like..

 

Watch his clips more closely. Been in his decision wins. Tyson struggled beyond six. Look at his late ko win over Frank Bruno. He looked gases throwing one punch at a time.