Prime Artur Beterbiev vs 35 year old Larry Holmes

Why didn't the 35 year old, 220 lbs Holmes beat the crap out of Spinks, who was weaker and a lighter puncher than Beterbiev? Because that version of Holmes at least didn't have the skill, athleticism or confidence to do so. It would be the same story with a non-weight cutting HW Beterbiev, except Holmes would get stopped.

Beterbiev lost to top amateurs over a 3-4 round limit(!) in fights where there is often no footage so we don't even know how many times he actually lost. On top of that the amateur system penalises Beterbiev's style, where power, durability and stamina are disfavoured over jibby jabby pointfighting, yet he was still amateur P4P No.1 and the No.1 ranked 91KG fighter. Holmes was dropped and beaten inside the distance on at least three occasions as an amateur and was dropped on several occasions as a pro with head shots, which Beterbiev also specialises in.

"Plod forward"



What a dishonest fool you are. If Beterbiev can catch a mid-20's Usyk and make it a war: the fastest and most agile cruiserweight ever (who also happens to be a master boxer and a southpaw) he can hit the 35/36 year old, fatter version of Holmes that Spinks beat and to a far greater degree. You just saw an "aging Beterbiev" make a prime Smith Jr. (who you probably gave an excellent chance of pulling the upset) look glacial with his movement. What's next? Is Beterbiev also a crude caveman with no skills and a glass chin?

Holmes was actually beaten by a LHW, twice officially so it's a more relevant question than any of those hypotheticals. But Holmes was a better fighter than Ali, Liston, Foreman etc. in my opinion or at the very least on that level, so it's no ridiculous at all. Ali for example got battered by a 205 pounder with no more height and reach than Beterbiev, who was less skilled, an inferior athlete and visually impaired. No one with a brain would give Beterbiev no chance in that matchup if they had something to lose for being wrong.

This response is primarily for the intelligent and open-minded readers of this thread. I won't be replying to you again for a good while.

 

Quote where I said that.

 

Delusional "historian" alert.

If a HW champ is beaten by a LHW champ, let alone twice, it's perfectly rational and reasonable to posit that other LHW champs could also beat that version of the HW champ at least, especially fighters from the future as all sports tend toward gradual progression.

If I made an argument that HW Moorer would beat that version of Holmes there wouldn't be much controversy. If I said "LHW Beterbiev would beat LHW Moorer", probably not much controversy either (it seems to be the consensus now that Beterbiev beats LHW's Moorer and Jones). But a non-weight cutting, HW Beterbiev beats "ATG American legend" Larry Holmes at the end of his reign? Shock horror! Impossible!

 

You got the wrong impression. Of course young Tyson has advantages over mature Beterbiev but Beterbiev also has important advantages over Tyson, that go beyond the few I mention. It's to balance the scales a bit.

It's also there to refute the "Beterbiev would be too small" argument when he not only lost to LHW Spinks twice but a shorter and stubbier fighter destroyed Holmes in 4 rounds, albeit an older and inactive version. It's a mistake to assume that Tyson would be *far* heavier than a HW Beterbiev, he wouldn't be entering the ring at 175 or even 190.

 

Beterbiev has already beaten a great HW who is better than a prime Holmes, let alone the one Spinks beat and Beterbiev had a highly competitive trilogy with him, in an amateur setup which doesn't even favour his attributes.

 

If mid-20's Usyk couldn't keep Beterbiev off him then mid-30's Holmes can't either. Intelligent, highly skilled pressure fighters don't make it easy to land jabs.

 

He was apparently outworked by Porter when he was a teenage middleweight with little boxing experience, talk about a pathetic reach. Usyk has gone on to beat top cruiserweights, HW's and become unified champion, while Porter has gone on to get beaten by pretty much all of the top welters.

 

"Holmes had arguably the best jab in HW history"

He had a very good jab, especially when he was a bit more mobile. But he still got decimated by a short pressure fighter inside 4 rounds, so it didn't save him.

"as they literally run into the punch"

Not so much if they are skilled, intelligent and athletic. Show me the fight where Beterbiev got his head jabbed off.