PRIME CARNERA V PRIME BRUNO?

If he is conceding 84 lbs and can't punch ,I think he is.

 

I do not really want to go over ground already covered.

It's clear you have an aversion to discussing head-to-head match-ups. In which case, it might be an idea for you to avoid getting involved in threads that are discussing head-to-head fantasy match-ups. Just a thought.

Whilst such discussions are less 'statistical' in nature, than comparing ledgers and legacies, they still involve a detailed examination of boxers' strengths and weaknesses, in an exchange of intelligent opinions, which does rely upon knowledge and interpretation of the game. At least - - I usually find that they do.

 

Let me ask you something. Is it more important that the revealed truth be acknowledged or that the perception at the time, however false, be preserved?

I wonder. Do you genuinely run out of ideas about how to reply to reasonable arguments but decide to do so anyway?

Your comments above are, at best, misguided and I disagree with them, entirely; mainly, because they are predicated upon me needing to have been swayed by news coverage of the bout and/or on me having to ignore any new information on what was really going on behind the scenes.

The advantage every boxing fan and observer of Bruno (or any other TV boxer) has over the Carnera reworkers, is that one can ignore any critics, attempts at sensationalism, propaganda etc. and actually watch the fights involving Bruno instead - making their own minds up, as they do. Unfortunately, there is little of Carnera to be actually seen and of that footage, which is available... ...well, again we can make our own minds up, can't we?

 

I am happy to discuss fantasy fights, but I will always place more weight on what a fighter did in the real world, than what they look like thy might have done in a hypothetical fight.

In Bruno's case the problems are his lack of legitimately world level wins, and the fact that his vaunted KO record was predominantly accomplished against weak opposition.

That makes it hard to back him too confidently against guys with deeper world level records.

 

Obviously the former.

I don't think that the word revisionist should be banded about as an insult.

If you think that the contemporary perception is wrong, then you should say so.

 

The underlined more accurately applies to Carnera.
He fought more set ups and palooka's than any heavyweight champion before or since!
Bruno beat three men with losing records,Carnera sixteen!Plus 84 and 85 fight Carnera fought 2 men who had never boxed before!
Bruno was never out boxed in a losing fight.
Bruno has real power .
Carnera does not have top power.Carnera had a weak chin.
How would Carnera beat him? Show us how?

 

OK, here is how I see it.

They both have a fair bit of padding on their records, but Carnera has a lot more wins against actual contenders, and a better record in his more important fights.

This makes be intuitively included to favour him before I have even looked any further.

Bruno's power was genuine, but most of his knockouts were scored against weak opposition.

When he came up against somebody world class he seemed to fight hesitantly, and fail to put them away.

The likely outcome for my money, is that Carnera would survive some shaky moments early, then take Bruno into deep water and drown him.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I know you won't agree with this but I don't think Carnera beat any elite Heavyweights, either. And, as @mcvey has pointed out, much of Carnera's apparently "deeper" record is runaway guff.

"World Level" is a subjective term.

 

McCall, whose toolset was not a million miles away from Carnera's (although he had an elite chin, unlike Carnera), was unable to drag Bruno in to the zone you believe Carnera would. Moreover, I think Carnera would be spending more time picking himself up off the floor against Bruno than he did against Baer. That is, of course, if he could get up at all.

 

UGH.

I think part of the problem here is ignorance. What fights have you seen Carnera in beside Max Baer, who hit harder than Bruno and took 11 rounds to stop him ( Bruno might punch himself out in a similar scenario ) and Louis, when Carrera was washed up.

A few quick facts.

1 ) Carrera has 71 Ko's in 88 wins. He can punch. Just ask Jack Sharkey, Ernie Schaff, or Jack Gross. One was a lineal champion, the other two top ten ranked opponents. Carrera KO'd them. So clearly he has power. Maybe not top end power, but let's be " frank " , Bruno does not have a top level chin. He has confidence issues and stamina related issues. Not sure if Bruno could go 15 competitive rounds.

2 ) Carnera was never stopped until he meets Max Baer, who for a change was motivated and focused. Baer is an all time top end puncher with elite power. If Carrera had a weak chin, there's no way he takes the pounding over 11 rounds, and keep getting up. As I mentioned before Carrera was not stopped for his first 84 pro fights ( all vs heavyweights ), which could very well be a seldom mentioned record in heavyweight boxing. He also took shots from Godfrey who was a puncher without going down.

3 ) Carnera suffered from Gigantism. His wore size 54 shoes and had foot problems. People this size do not live very long, which means their primes go quickly. It is my belief that the Max Baer fight ruined Carnera as he likely suffered a concussion.


4 ) How can Carrera win? Catch his unreliable chin. Clinch and wear him down. Outlast him. Bruno had stamina problems. He also had confidence issues to the point where he needed a sports psychologist. A towering giant who does not quit might bother him mentally.

I'd pick Bruno, but give Carrera a real chance, especially if the fight is 15 rounds.

Vs Oliver McCall, perhaps Burno's best win he has dead tried the end of 12 rounds. If this fantasy match up 15 rounds. If so, edge to Carnera in that department.

The best fighters Bruno fought were Lewis, Tyson, Witherspoon, and Smith...they all stopped him, and I don't think Smith is much better than Carnera.

So heck yes Carrera has a chance!

 

I've seen what is out there of Carnera.
Campolo
Schaaf
Sharkey
Gains
Impelletiere
Meen
Baer
Loughran
Louis
Uzcudun
Godfrey
What more have you seen to call me ignorant?
ps Carnera was washed up when he fought Louis? He was 28 years old!lol
Gross fought Carnera in1930 &1932 when was he top ten ranked?
Schaff should not have been anywhere near a ring when he was in with Carnera.
Wonder why I never got a reply to this post?lol

 

Is HP sauce better than A1 sauce? We don't have HP in the states.