Prime Dempsey vs peak post prison Tyson

That wasn’t the only rule that was violated. Dempsey was also allowed stand over Firpo so he could batter him as he tried to get up instead of going to the neutral corner as he was supposed to.

Yeah! I guess I am a stickler for rules. Suppose they would have helped Hopkins back into the ring and Hopkins would have KOD Joe? Then I bet you would be a sticker for rules depending on who you were rooting for right? If for Joe then no go. If for Hopkins then nothing wrong with letting the fight continue. I don't see things in that biased way. To me that's like a tournament official letting a chess player use his pawn as a queen while holding the other to the rules. Winning like that is no win at all. IMHO. So I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree on that.

As for Dempsey asking to be helped back in, I did read it but can't locate it on the Internet.

In any case, that is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that if he had not been helped he would have been counted out.

What is relevant is that they ignored the rules just for him.

What is relevant is that they permitted another rule violation by letting Dempsey stand over Firpo and batter him senseless each to he tried to get up instead of making sure the American went to a neutral corner.

 

Standing over your opponent wasn't against the rules back then.

You never even saw what happened outside of the ring yet you are making serious assumptions about what went on. The film doesn't show any outside hands helping Dempsey into the ring. However what the film does show is Dempsey's foot still in the ring when he was knocked out of it. This means that Dempsey was on a table or elevated surface that was right next to the ring. Like I said, it was reporters with typewriters idk if you know this but back then good typewriters were expensive and I doubt anyone with one would be too happy about a 192 lb grown man falling right on top of it. Of course they are going to try and push him off. However if he really was so hurt that he couldn't get back in the ring in 20 seconds then he wouldn't have regardless of what the reporters did which was NOT actively help and guide him into the ring. That is pure bs, use commons sense.

Again, standing over your opponent wasn't illegal back then.

 

It's possible Jack may have avoided black fighters. Would he have fought Tyson in the first place?

 

I don't need to see what happened personally to be informed about what occurred. I wasn't there when Julius Caesar invaded Gaul yet I know he invaded Gaul. The fact that he was pummeled out of the ring and assisted has never been challenged. It is taken as a fact.

You might have a point about neutral corner and standing over an opponent once he was down at that time. But the article states otherwise. So it is your word against the article.

But if you are right, then we should expect to see Firpo standing over Dempsey after he was helped back into the ring. Was Firpo standing over Dempsey after he was helped back in? If not-why not?

So it boils down to my accepting your unsubstantiated opinions or the statement of others. Why should your opinion be given more weight?

 

Says who and to what degree was he helped?

You haven't answered these questions. The film clearly shows no hands helping him when he gets in the ring. I'm not denying that perhaps the newspapermen on their type writers pushed Dempsey off but no they did not actively stand him up and guide him to the ring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dempsey_vs._Luis_Ángel_Firpo
"There was no "three knockdown" rule, and Dempsey was permitted to stand over the fallen fighter and immediately knock him down again, as there was yet no rule about going to a neutral corner."

What article are you getting your information from? Post the link.

It isn't my word. I am conveying the information of the time period as well as observations (facts) from the film.

 

The rule that a fighter has to go to a neutral corner when his opponent has been knocked down was in effect, but it was ignored in this fight. Each time Firpo went to the canvas, Dempsey stood over him--waiting. As Firpo's hands and knees cleared the canvas and he attempted to rise, Dempsey would hit him again. Had Firpo been able to stand up for a moment and clear his head, it might well have been a different story. As I said, he could hit. Toward the end of the first round he connected and knocked Dempsey clear out of the ring. Everyone in the arena was on his feet yelling, and then I saw hands pushing Dempsey back through the ropes.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jack_Dempsey_vs._Luis_Angel_Firpo
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That's a testimony from a person who was personally there at the fight.

But I think he is wrong about the neutral corner statement since here is Firpo waiting for Dempsey to get back in and he isn't in the neutral corner.

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However, that leaves the legality of his being pushed back in.

 

John Huston's account of the fight support what I have been saying all along. Look at the picture you posted. Do you honestly see any hands that look like they are helping Dempsey back into the ring?