Prime Duran vs Prime Ray Robinson.

I doubt that Chris would place Duran in the top 5. If you would, then you are neither a doubter nor a detractor.

Duran's losses have no excuse. None of them. There are reasons that can account for the differences in performance though, and they make perfect sense. Some deny the reasons as excuses per se, others prop-up ready excuses. I think that both camps are wrong.

Montreal Duran's being stopped is unlikely, but not impossible -sure.

 

Great call, JG.

 

This is about how I see it. Depends on how frustrated Duran would get in the later stages. Robinson sure could frustrate a man with his jab and movement, and if Duran reacted anything close to like he did in the rematch against Leonard, Robinson would make him pay.

Sure a fight I'd want to see. Have to watch the Montreal fight again, to get a feel for how well Duran could close with Robinson.

Out of curiousity how would you rank Duran and Robinson on a technical level to Hopkins? For my money, Hopkins may just have both of them beat in this aspect.

 

Watch Montreal again. You will not only see how skillfully & effectively Duran can close the distance, you will also see that Hopkins' level isn't quite at Duran's. If that doesn't convince you then try on Duran-Barkley again.

Hopkins may be a bit more technically sound than Robinson but it is tough to tell. Is he more technically sound or more technically particular about being sound? Robinson banged hard and sometimes would often be less particular about being a technician and more particular about going home early. Robinson was considerably better than Hopkins offensively at two out of three ranges. His defense is tougher to gauge for the reasons stated.

 

B-Hop, at his best, B, has always been a cunning 'n precise opportunist. SRR, under the sheen, was 100% HIT MAN.

 

That's true. And that's what I love about Robinson. He may look like a cutie, but the guy was a natural warrior that just waited for the moment to pounce.

Don't know if I've ever seen someone perform every aspect of the big book of boxing to such perfection as Hopkins, though. He's not as inventive as for example Ali (who is? ), but what he does he performs to perfection.

 

Offensively, and countering, I'm satisfied that Duran was at least every bit as good as Hopkins. But I haven't seen Duran execute economical lateral movement like Hopkins did against for example Pavlik. Hell, not sure even Robinson ranks with him in that regard.

Good point. There's not many sweeter sights than when Robinson gets the scent of blood in them nostrils. Like against Graziano. He gets careless enough to be floored by a right, but that's no matter...

 

If Robinson didnt TKO/KO him, he`d win a clear decision, too big & a better fighter regardless of weight.

 

Seriously, this is getting beyond a joke now, just what fight were you watching ?

 

I absolutely love a classic boxer like Ike Williams, pivoting with his left hook and getting full leverage, his right hand was like a slingshot.

I think Duran - Williams would be a great fight, but the longer the fight goes on, the rougher Duran gets.. I think Duran wears Williams down to a decision or a late stoppage.

Duran - SRR is an intriguing matchup aswell, I definitely would give Duran a great shot at taking it down.

 

Adding a note, Duran is possibly the most natural fierce boxer I have ever studied. His head movement, his short hooks, even when getting wild he's automatically moving his head beautifully.

Duran could slug, he could box, he could jab.. he had a strong chin, he was not afraid of duking it out.

 

I have my scorecard.

 

Robinson by decision. Fairly close. I think it's possible that Duran pays a heavier price on the way in than he did in Montreal and therefore slows down his charge a bit.

As for this Duran debate. I rate him top 10 ATG. Top 5 is maybe a slight stretch for me. What he did up until Montreal is plenty. After that, Duran backers pick and choose performances and make excuses for the rest. Duran detractors have plenty to detract from after Montreal. But up to that point he was clearly one of the best ever. Robinson is just a 1/4 of a notch better IMO.

 

I agree with you J.G.' that the Ike Williams,who I watched Ko Beau Jack,in Philly in 1948,could hit with tremendous authority,in flurries,without sacrificing punching power...Ike could bring it on...

 

good call:good not that my opinion means much but i rate williams as the second best lightweight of all time and a top 30 all time, maybe higher. watching he and beau jack is magic (and you did it in ****ing person!)