Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Mar 30, 2021.
My point exactly mate.
Doubtful, they simply don't match -up well against prime Tyson. Styles make fights, what Tyson did best were weaknesses with both Holyfield and Lewis, conversely what they did wouldn't have been a great issue with Tyson. Especially the case with Lewis.
Prime Tyson was only for a short period ... From 86 to 88 ... And during that time period almost everyone including prominent "boxing analysts" and "historians" didn't think he could be beaten.Duringthat time period we hardly ever saw Tyson cut, hurt or even stunned. Nobody is unbeatable especially since boxing is a styles game.
Holyfield and Lewis never fought that Tyson.
Holyfield fought a past prime head hunting Tyson who displayed no real elusive movement and was throwing one punch at a time.
Lewis fought the ghost of Mike Tyson. It's not even worth mentioning.
I don't see either Holyfield or Lewis beating that Tyson ... Holyfield has a better chance because he studied Tyson exhaustively and has great durability but Lennox Lewis isn't going to survive that Mike Tyson. He couldn't even beat Mike's sparring partner.
Though I consider Lewis a greater ATG, if inferior fighters like Rahman and McCall ko'd him....
Personally for me? I think prime Tyson smokes him.
Do beat the best Tyson you need a stylistic advantage, or be a class above. I don’t think Holy had either.
That version of Tyson was too savage, too explosive, too determined.
I would actually agree that old Holyfield is perhaps even the safer bet.
We didn't see prime Holy fight that way but he never had to either. We also didn't see guys like Tucker and Bonecrusher hugging people at every opportunity but fighting Tyson brought out that side of them that's for sure.
Holyfield is adaptable. He may have fought the wrong fight here and there but he wasn't stupid. A guy like Bowe is always a huge challenge for Evander but Tyson is an altogether different puzzle and one where Vander isn't so outgunned size wise.
I like the looks of Holyfield against Douglas. He looked so sharp and fast and was so calm and on point tactically.
I have the feeling (and obviously many others do too) Tyson is always going to bring out the best in Holyfield. The personalities, the background, the dangers.
I'm not saying by any stretch so called prime Tyson couldn't win. I can picture a scenario where he might overpower Evander, absolutely, even if i don't quite share the prediction.
I don't think Holyfield would be lured into a brainless brawl. I feel Holyfields sheer will to beat Tyson would actually have him do the right thing. He was almost obsessed with beating him and that never left him.
It's a great matchup and one i'd certainly pay to see Flash.
Liston and Foreman were considered similar.
The thing here is that Tyson is perhaps the greatest heavyweight ever at putting away good to very good fighters. This also happens to be the level of opponent he was fighting. No-one was great enough to test him, expose chinks in the armor etc. Sure he might walk thru the odd great too but he sure ain't walking through nor beating all of them.
Throw prime Foreman, Lewis and say Ali into that little mini era and it's an entirely different world.
Tyson was a huge fish in a medium sized pond and credit to him he performed like it - for a middling amount of time.
Possibly. but I think it's Holyfields mental strength that beats Tyson every time.
Holyfield said when he faced Tyson Mikes punches were no longer as fast as in his prime. All we know even his defense wasnt the same anymore.
Prime Tyson v Prime Holyfield would be 60/40 imo maybe a little more for Tyson.
Here's the thing, Holyfield was older but was still pretty sharp. It's not like he retired shortly after, he fought competitively at the top level for another 5 years before the steep decline. But from 92-96 he fought Holmes, Bowe 3x, Moorer, Mercer, Czyz and Stewart. He battle tested and ready for anybody. He was also larger, bulkier and took a punch better.
Tyson may have been younger, but he had far too much ring rust and it showed in his comeback fights, especially the fight against Buster Mathis Jr where his accuracy was questionable. I don't think their actual fight reflects what could have happened in 1991/2 where both fighters would be entering a fight battle tested and sharp. Back then Tyson stops a gallant Holyfield inside the distance in a FOTY worthy performance.
Funny you should mention Holyfield retiring since he did have serious health concerns after the losses to Bowe (he literally retired) and Moorer (he was immediately hospitalized). After both fights he was inactive for a year and needed to be cleared by the mayo clinic before he could box again.
I was not suggesting Tyson was remotely the same as his 80's counterpart before the prison sentence. It would be silly to suggest the Tyson of the Hoylfield fight was just as sharp and explosive as the Tyson who pummeled Holmes and demolished Berbick.
But it's equally silly to act like fighting Bowe 3x, getting nailed against the ropes by Cooper, being hit by sledgehammer blows from Foreman, having a brutal war with Ray Mercer, etc didn't make Holyfield even more shopworn as a result. Nobody gets hit by guys like that and doesn't end up with built up damage.
People were concerned for Holyfield's health and well being before the Tyson bouts. This is revisionist history. Holyfield was not seen as some tough muscular terminator who would be able to absorb Tyson's best shots, many thought he was done for, had taken far too much punishment, and were worried about his heart problems as seen in his struggles with Bowe and Moorer. Tyson on the other hand completely dominated Bruno and Seldom and to the untrained eye, it seemed he was back in top form and some expected him to break Holyfield down.
How did Holyfield perform at the world level AFTER the Tyson bouts? He honestly wasn't that impressive:
-went 0-1-1 against Lewis
-avenged his loss to Moorer (who he shouldn't have lost to in the 1st place and Moorer was on borrowed time as a blown up light heavy with leaky defense)
-trilogy with Ruiz going 1-1-1
-lost to Chris Byrd who was a blown up light heavy.
-got broken down and stopped by an obese James Toney who moved up from middleweight
-a bogus "win" over Rahman after a horrendous head butt that left Rahman with a giant hematoma bruise.
-lost to ibragimov
-lost to Valuev
-stopped an ancient 40 year old botha
Altogether Holyfield went 5-2-6 after beating a past his prime tyson. 2 of those wins were over guys who are frankly low B level at best, 1 "win" that was a result of a clash of heads, and he lost to several men who either weren't that good or were moving up from middleweight/light heavy. No shame in losing to Lennox Lewis but you get the picture.
Holyfield was heavily shopworn by the time he fought Tyson, was 4 years older, had been in many brutal wars already while Tyson was in prison, and would go on to have a losing record against b and c level opponents immediately after beating Tyson. To say he was "competitive" after the Tyson bouts is generous given that he only looked good against Ruiz (who wasn't that great to begin with) and put up a decent effort against Lewis in the 2nd fight but ultimately lost.
Yes because Holyfield can beat anyone of any era according to this whole forum. Whats new?
The more I think about it, the more I think Holyfield would have 1- 2ed him to death. Which is about what Tyson got in the end, anyway.
Holyfield would have KOed him earlier in '91 than he did in '96. Can you imagine that guy that fought Douglas, body punches from hell, non-stop, relentless. He would have definitely KOed Tyson before round 10. Lucky for Tyson, he got old Holyfield, to save face. '91 Holyfield blasts him out. On the seat of his pants. No.Doubt.About.It.
Holyfield KO 4 Tyson
that guy would KO Tyson
Is this satire?