Prime Evander Holyfield will always beat prime Tyson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze No Fairy Tales• Full Member

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    You changed the title- thought this was a new thread.
    Most people agree, hardly an unpopular opinion.

    Seems like you wanted to draw people out to defend Tyson?
    Truth be told I think Tyson beats Evander prime for prime, That is if Evander is fighting in a gentleman's fashion as is Mike.
     
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  2. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've gotta say, Holyfield was so cynical (and clinical) with the headbutts.
    I mean, yes, heads clashing is nothing new in boxing, nor is fouling, but still...

    I watched a sequence of Holyfield v Foreman the other day. I've seen this fight about va half-dozen times at least, and never noticed it before, but in one round Holyfield throws a 1-2 and immediately falls into a clinch.
    But as he comes to clinch, he's got his head down and he deliberately rams it into the space where Foreman's face had been just a split second earlier.
    Foreman had turned his face away just as Holyfield came in, and no contact happened.
    But it was as clear and deliberate attempt at a butt as I've ever seen.
    What got me was how sneaky he was with it. It was a smooth, fluid motion that just had to have been practiced over and over again in training.
    There is no doubt in my mind about it.

    The ref didn't pick it up, the commentators didn't, and over the years over multiple viewings, neither did I.
    It was that, that got me annoyed. Super sneaky and very cynical.
     
  3. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze No Fairy Tales• Full Member

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    Evander was dirty, I remember at one stage In the fight he tried it again and George returned to his old self for just a split second he scowled and just about pushed Evander to the other side of the ring. We talk about the ear biting of Tyson yes it was wrong but truth be told Tyson was getting screwed over harshly with blatant fouling. Do I condone it no, did he deserve it- yes! in a sport where a loss can change the course of a persons life Dirty play should be called out and returned if the ref refuses to do something about it.

    As off topic as this is, I wish Gerald had called out and reacted to Benn in a similar fashion for the ludicrous amount of rabbit punches he was getting away with.
     
  4. cuchulain

    cuchulain Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That second bout was one of the dirtiest performances ever by Holy in a career littered with dirty performances.

    Mike shouldn't have bitten Holy, he should have booted full force in the balls (that might have saved Holy a lot of child support later :D).

    Laine rightfully DQ'd Tyson for the double bite, but he didn't do a thing with Holy's low blows and headbutts.

    Mike just lost his cool.


    But to the question at hand....I don't see any version of Holy going the distance with the 1988-89 version of Tyson. Nor do I see Holy prevailing against the Feb 11 Buster Douglas either.
     
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  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Love to see these people talking about Holyfield being a dirty fighter.

    Guess they missed Mike’s dirty tactics including multiple fights where he tried to wrench opponents’ arms out of their sockets or snap their elbows, strike with the forearm, etc.

    Then when someone says ‘I’ll get in the gutter with you’ he starts whining to the ref like a little boy calling for his mom. Typical bully behavior — when someone pushes them around and bullies them, they look for a way out.

    You wanna play, get in the sandbox.

    Holyfield beat Mike Tyson like a rented mule. And he would — Every. Single. Time. Boxing is 90 percent mental and Evander had Mike’s number.

    Tyson never figured out what to do against someone who wasn’t inferior to him and wasn’t scared of him.

    If they fight an old-man exhibition like has been talked about, Holyfield will probably rough him up and take him out and the rapist and all of his snotty-nosed supporters will talk about how it was supposed to be a friendly dance recital and not an actual fight.
     
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  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Interesting in their first fight Mike was looking for a way out of the fight and so obviously charges in with his head at Holyfield who stood is ground. Then Mike wince grabbed his own head like he had been butted. It bad acting. I think it was just before Tyson stopped fighting so the doctor could looked. Tyson requested the doctor.
    Between the two Tyson was actually the dirty one. He just exposed.
     
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  7. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Holy proved just as willing as Mike to fight dirty, and the bully didn't like that. In the second fight, Holy looked at Mike as if he'd just as soon kill him as look at him, and watch how Mike reacted.

    However, I still have a hard time seeing Holy make a whole fight against the Spinks-destroying Mike. That Mike just seemed so much faster, insanely aggressive, and defensively sound than did the guy of the Bruno fight on. The latter Mike gets beat by even the Dokes-era Holy imo.
     
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I think Holyfield would always get the fight where he needs it. The late rounds with a chance to win. Its not about boxing at that point.
     
  9. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So it is an unpopular opinion to say that Holyfield beats prime Tyson
     
  10. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You bring to mind great memories of when Holy was at the top of his game. He was such a warrior, and fought like a well tuned machine...but one with a HUGE heart. I hope that made any sense at all lol. He was a wonder to behold at his best, #4 ATG in my book. Only Ali, Louis, and Holmes were greater imo.
     
  11. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Man.. That sure is a nice tribute.

    Here's a link of Tyson trying to trade left hooks with Holyfield.



    big dummy..
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, nobody missed Mike being a dirty fighter sometimes. He was called out for such for years.
    And therein lies the difference.
    Evander was every bit as dirty as Tyson, and had been for years too. Yet, he somehow escaped criticism until it could no longer be ignored.
    Tyson, Ruiz, Rahman, Lewis (to name a few) all complained about his use of headbutts.
    Just yesterday I watched Toney v Holyfield and the amount of times the ref cautioned Evander about watching his head...
    The irony was that aside from punching after the bell a few times (something he often did) he didn't butt.
    However, his reputation by this time preceded him and obviously the ref felt compelled to constantly 'remind' him to watch his head.

    So while it's perfectly fine (and justified) that people say Tyson was dirty, I find it ironic that some take exception to the fact that Holyfield was no better. And then use deflection tactics to justify it.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holyfield is ridiculously dirty and very very good at disguising his intentions. Having said that Tyson was far from an angel and really couldn't take it back.
     
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  14. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    The difference between Tyson's fouling and Holyfields is that Holyfields fouls impacted the outcome of the fights

    If he didn't headbutt Tyson would he have won? We don't know. Tyson's elbows and arm locks in clinches didn't change the outcome of any fight.

    It was a case of someone who wasn't going to take **** from anyone fighting someone who was cheating and fouling ... I would have kicked him in the knee if I was getting headbutted like that
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holyfield's fouls didn't impact the outcome of the Tyson fights lets be serious.