Prime Ezzard Charles in the 1970s

McVey's reasoning is easy to deduce. If he picks only great fighters from the 70s to beat Charles it would be a credit to Marciano and the 40s/50s in general. So he threw in Shavers as a subtle show of disrespect.

I would say from 46-54, Shaver's chances of upsetting Charles are slim to none.

Shavers likely KOs teenage middleweight Charles and washed up gatekeeper Charles.

 

You criticized my pick and I explained my reasoning. I picked Charles because I believe Ali and Frazier are at a disadvantage for 80% of the decade in question.

Im not trying to convince of you of anything.

 

I didn't criticize it. I disagreed and pointed out that Frazier performed in his prime during the decade defined as the 70's. In that decade, Frazier fought a few times in top form and I feel that Frazier beats Charles. I thought that was the question poised by the thread originator ...

 

Wouldn't Charles be fighting at about 185 lbs or so against most of the 70's heavies? Harold Johnson beat a diminished Charles, the bigger Walcott split with him, and a even bigger Nino Valdez beat him too.

 

I hadn't thought like that at all.What a serpentine mind you have!
Its quite possible Charles confounds Shavers , turning him all night and comfortably outboxing him.
Charles put out a wonderful effort against Rocky in their first fight ,but I think it diminished him,Marciano ruined quite a few guys.
I would say that anyone who completely dismisses a puncher like Shavers against a big lightheavyweight ,one who was stopped 7 times is not only being unrealistic but is actually the one with an agenda.Do you think if Shavers ko'd Charles early it somehow detracts from Rocky's performances against him? Absurd!

I shouldn't try to analyse my thought processes if I were you,you haven't the equipment for it and your way off base !lol
Marciano was a great fighter,great champion, and a fine man,and nobody has stated that more often than I!

Elmer Ray, Nino Valdes,Rex Layne ,Harold Johnson,beat Charles in your time scale what Ray and Layne did I think Shavers could accomplish.

 

These were razor thin decisions that could have gone either way. Charles beat Rex back lots of times. Charles beat Ray too. He fought Miami based Nino in Miami, there was no rematch. He fought Philadelphia based Johnson in Philadelphia, there was no rematch. I think this tells a story.

 

Little trivia on the Ellis fight:
Jimmy said it was the stupidest punch he ever let himself get hit with in his career.
I believe he actually vomited before leaving the ring.

 

I don't know where you got the idea Nino Valdes was based in Miami. He'd never even fought in Miami until his win over Charles (which was a comfortable unanimous decision and not "razor-thin" in any way).

 

It just fits his narrative ,it doesn't have to be true!

Valdes fought in Miami just 4 times, he won 2 and lost 2.Charles was stopped by John Holman in Miami but won the rematch in his home town of Cincinnatti,by split dec,"I think this tells a story"lol

• Referee: Cy Gottfried 2-7

• Judge: Morris Feingold 3-5

• Judge: Gus Jacobson 3-5

"Ezzard Charles' dream of becoming the first man in history to regain the world's heavyweight championship lay all but shattered today under the wreckage of his surprise loss to obscure Nino Valdes of Cuba. Valdes stunned a crowd of 3,500 last night as he took Charles' best punches and came on to win the unanimous 10 round vote of two judges and the referee. Charles entered the ring at 191 pounds, a little over his usual fighting weight, and he allowed that the extra poundage made him a little sluggish." -United Press

• Unofficial UP scorecard - 5-3-2 Valdes

Post fight comments

• "I just had a bad night." -Ezzard Charles

• "I don't see any point for a rematch. My boy won easily. That should be enough. But I'll go where the money goes." -Bobby Gleason, Valdes' manager

 

Sorry, I was mistaken. Valdes was Cuban. He had a lot of support with the Cuban community when he boxed in Miami.

Angelo Dundee had quite a stable of Cubans in His Miami gym. The miami crowd includes many Cubans. Theres always been a lot of Cubans there.

I believe Nino had more of a hometown support there than Ezzard did. I know all about this fight and what happened. Charles miscalculated started too fast and faded late. It was close, Ezzard was eager for a rematch but no dice.

Also Ezzard also fought Layne in His home town the one time he lost against him. Every other time Layne was beaten by Charles. I don't doubt for a moment Ez could have also reversed that close loss to Nino in a rematch had he got one. Charles was on the road when he dropped close fights.

 

5-3-2 is a close fight. If Charles got the even rounds it's a draw!

 

The referee called it 7-3!

 

Charles fought Layne 3 times winning 2 losing the other ,that's not "lots of times". For their first fight Layne was coming back after being badly ko'd by Marciano just 12 weeks earlier.

 

the press and judges had it closer. Charles looked sluggish. He called it an off night, wanted a return and was denied a rematch...then later Charles blew out Wallace and Satterfeild in back to back fights to make himself the most logical contender again.

Can't deny Nino had a good win but it seems like charles did an off night. Took him too lightly, came in heavy, it was still A close, hard fought fight.