Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bummy Davis, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    My God!........


    Charles obviously automatically gains 70% because he fought a certain opponent.

    How in gods name can any neutral and non bias person have him beating Liston, Foreman, Tyson and Holmes.

    Shocking.

    Of course it has nothing to do with the above 4 being Marcianos biggest threats I suppose?
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    There were no lies told in this thread.
     
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  3. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Say what!?!??.........

    Well my 2 posts were truthful at least.
     
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  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1 Louis
    2 Ali
    3 Holmes
    4 Lewis
    5 Foreman
    6 Wlad
    7 Marciano
    8 Frazier
    9 Holyfield
    10 Tyson

    11 Johnson
    12 Liston
    13 Dempsey

    I guess 11 Johnson is the first and only guy I would pick him over.

    14 Jeffries
    15 Vitali
    16 Bowe

    17 Charles
    18 Walcott
    19 Patterson
    20 Schmeling

    so I guess Johnson and Walcott + Patterson/Schmeling 50/50 type of fights.

    not meaning this as a knock on Charles as much as it is a higher estimation of the top 20 IMO
     
  5. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Even if Marciano never existed Charles would still be a great fighter. Even disregarding his light heavyweight career Charles had about 70 fights as a heavyweight and during that beat Louis, Walcott, Bivins, Elmer Ray, Beshore, Layne, Satterfield, Norkus, Brion, Baski, Wallace, Haynes, Albright, and Holman.

    Foreman and Liston against clever fighters that were experienced and hard to land on very were beatable despite their size and power. Peralta and Jimmy Young gave Foreman all he can handle and both were inferior fighter to Charles at his best.

    As for Liston he didn’t run through whitehurst or Machen, who again didn’t have the experience or talent Charles had. Liston even in his prime in preparation for the first Ali fight was having the hardest time with Leotis Martin, who was his sparring Partner at the time.

    For these reasons it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility for Charles to decision Foreman or Liston and possibly stop them on cuts.

    Tyson would definitely end Charles if he managed to trap him and connect clean, but on the other hand Tyson would be fighting someone with faster handspeed and better timing for once and if Charles starts cutting Tyson’s face up Tyson might quit.

    As for Holmes the only really clever smaller fighter that he ever faced was Spinks, who he lost to admittedly when he was passed his best, but this is another fight that Charles could win.
     
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol: Course not, George. This may be your favorite thread!
     
  7. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    George may have a point.

    In the minds of cult members, they believe they are being truthful.
    Similar to those flat earth society folk.
    Pick a Marciano opponent, side with him over Rocks biggest threats, no matter how ridiculous your choices and there you have it.
     
  8. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreed. And honestly, John. I do not see any lightheavy in history getting out of the 1st round against Tyson except for MAYBE James Toney. For me personally, I have Ezzard rated the highest at 175
     
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  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    This post shows just how insane some of Marcianos haters are...This is a damn Charles thread. Keep your weird obsessions in context. Ezzard Charles isn’t “a marciano opponent” he’s one of the best p4p fighters to ever live. Some of you people need therapy
     
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  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    There's no need to be so insecure. It's obvious what's happening here.
     
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  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    lol
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I probably rate Charles a little big higher than everybody else, but I think that at his peak, he was good enough to beat some real greats below 200lbs. With that said, I'd favour him to win close decisions over Dempsey and Marciano (prime for prime), and give him good odds of upsetting Holyfield. I'd pick Charles to stop Patterson and out-box Schmeling. I'd pick Charles to out-box Tunney as well. I'd favour him over Jeffries and Johnson without a second's hesitation. Neither of them would translate well into layer eras IMO.

    Lewis is too big, and so are Holmes and Ali. Tyson stops any LHW in three at most, IMO. Louis stops him before ten as well IMO, too accurate and sharp. If they were all the same size, Charles would beat them all, best for best. But they aren't, so he doesn't.

    There are versions of young Foreman that Charles could beat. The one who was run close by Peralta, or lost to Young, could lose to Charles if he chose to fight super negatively. He gets destroyed vs the prime version from Chuvalo to Ali. I think I saw someone make a case for Charles beating Liston, but I don't buy it. I think the jab breaks him down.

    A fight with Frazier could either go about ten and be great, where Joe breaks him down and stops him while trading hooks, or it can go fifteen and be incredibly boring. Depends on how Charles approached it, I can't ever see him winning that one though. If Charles chose to stand in the pocket and look for counters, it'd be an awesome fight. If he fought on the outside and clinched incessantly, it'd be awful IMO.
     
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is a far more realistic approach, and one I mostly agree with.
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I think middleweight is the most interesting weight to discuss Charles at. He's more of an enigma there, and it's a very deep division where he isn't the defacto number one.
     
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  15. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member Full Member

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    Bummy forgot more about boxing than you'll ever know, and unlike you, was an excellent poster.