prime ezzard charles vs prime sonny liston?

Looks like Charles will end up like that bug on your car's windshield....an ex-bug.

 

Liston probably by stoppage.

 

folley Liston and Machen went 4-0 against Valdes, whom Charles lost too

Liston knocked out a prime Patterson 2x in one round. Patterson was just as great a heavyweight as Charles was

Yes Charles was on his prime during the 1940s but you love to try to spew out garbage like charles was in his prime vs Marciano because he’s your hero and you worship him. You love to ignore Charles losses as well


Liston has the best heavyweight wins knocking out Patterson twice in one round is more impressive than Charles going 2-2 with a 36-38 year old Walcott

 

Both Machen and Folley beat Valdes when he was just 31 years old in 1956...valdes would go on a 13-1 run over the next two years beating joe Erskine, mike dejohn 2x, summerlin, bethea, Harold carter, and mcmutry. Valdes would end up earning a number 2 rating in the world by the end of 1958...Valdes was certainly not past his prime in 1956


I don’t think Charles has a better heavyweight resume than Patterson. Charles also lost a lot more than Patterson which negates whatever wins Charles has over Patterson


Charles was well past his prime when he fought Marciano in 54...the 48 Charles May have beaten Marciano or taken 1 out of 3 in a trilogy

 

You still think Valdes was past his prime vs Machen and Folley in 56?

Charles and Patterson typically get rated neck and neck on all time heavyweight lists. Liston showed in the Patterson fights he was far superior to Floyd, and that caliber a fighter.

The truth is while he fought very brave and courageous, he was physically declined even for the first Marciano fight. He fought mostly flat footed, he pushed his jab at times, he didn’t throw combinations just looked for right hand pot shots, his reflexes were nowhere near as fast as 46-48...It was one of Charles greatest performances in the sense he fought with a lot of heart and showed durability. But he’s had much better performances on film that showcased his speed reflexes and hitting ability . Marciano looked awful in the early stages..
Rusty, poor defense, over aggressive, not patient, he finally found himself by round 6. Round 15 was a great Marciano performance

 

I disagree, Patterson was fragile, he got dropped in every defense & was Ko'd and almost KO'd by Ingo. As he got older he gained experience and learned how to relax and used it in fights vs Quarry & Bonavena but I think Charles was more of a rugged guy than Patterson.

As far as Liston never losing to fighters like Walcott (won and lost) Johnson (disputed decision ) Liston never fought those types of quality fighters and frankly I dont see the quality in his resume.. Patterson my have been the best fighter Sonny faced and beat and I rate Charles a much more durable heavyweight and I rate him Higher than Floyd and I knew Floyd liked him and thought he was a fine fighter.

Liston had a good winW12 over Eddie Machen probaly one of Liston best opponents but Machen was Ko'd in one round by Ingo and Harold Johnson beat Machen and only 7 months after Liston outpointed Machen.

Who else did Liston beat I hear Big Cat Williams was another of his better wins but Big Cat was KO'd in 3 rounds by Bob Satterfield who Ezzard Charles KO'd in 2 rounds 6 months after Satterfield KO'd Big Cat.

Sonny looked good and strong against most of his opposition and to Sonnys credit he fought who was available but Sonny did not fight the tricky guys like Walcott that could KO a man with either hand or guys that could fight inside and out like Charles. Could Sonny beat them? good possibility but judging from the Ali fights and Leotis Martin later my guess is Sonny may have had trouble with 1) fighter that take a licking & keep on ticking) Charles and crafty guy like Walcott That could punch.

Sonny was champ when I was a kid & I was so mad when Clay beat him 2X Sonny looked great dismantling Patterson x2 and he looked impressive vs his opposition but in reality his opposition was ordinary.

The Charles of Marciano 1 or Louis or Satterfield fight was a live wire and some say he was past his best, I think he may have been past his best consistanly but he was also an active fighter. Could Charles be an earlier Leotis Martin type KO loss fight for Sonny?

I know the easy thing to say is Liston would win but I am not so sure how Liston does against the quality of a prime and ready Charles, like I said before its not a sure thing for Sonny.

 

Charles is knocking on the door of the all-time p4p top 10, but there's no way he would beat Liston. And I think Liston would definitively KO Charles.

 

Charles only losses during his prime (1944-1951) are to Walcott and a highly controversial loss to Elmer Ray that many thought he won.

Patterson has prime losses to Johannson, Liston, and Ali and they were more decisive than Charles losses. Charles rates above Patterson on dominance. He never had losses as brutal and decisive in his prime as Patterson's losses to Liston.

 

If people are arguing Charles was past his prime against Marciano why would they bring up loses to Johnson and Valdes that happened right before he faced Marciano unless they had an agenda?