Prime Fernando Vargas vs Manny Pacquiao at 154.

Vargas is leagues above Foreman. LEAGUES. Vargas has been the only guy to convincingly, and clearly beat a prime Quartey.

You say Winky was green, then Vargas must have been a fetus because Winky had way more experience than Vargas.

When Vargas fought Trinidad, besides DLH no one had ever given Trinidad such a hard fight. Going into the 11th the fight was even.

Vargas was a really good boxer puncher, with good speed and skill.

 

Pac is untested at 154 and IMO has no business there. For all we know he would be ****. Not sure if his power and speed would be enough.

So I go with Vargas with mid to late round TKO.

 

at 140, I say Pac by KO.

 

atsch Winky Wright was far from a green fighter he already had over 40 fights and was a former champ,and Vargas only had 17 fights. Did you even watch boxing back then?
Also Vargas was at least as fast as Foreman and way more powerful and only an "1 shorter.
Also i was at the fight against Quartey and he won convincingly I had it 117-112.

 

Pacquiao.

 

.

 

The Winky of the Vargas fight was a completely different fighter than we saw during his reign at 154. His trainer at the time (can't remember, maybe Birmingham)? stated that after the Vargas fight, Winky came back to the gym with his new defensive style of the high guard that he became known for and would not abandon that style moving forward. This made him become a much better fighter, which history does show considering his results.

Also, I at no time compared Foreman to Vargas, so I have no idea why you brought that into this conversation.

We will also have to agree to disagree when comparing Vargas to Foreman as far as handspeed, because I think that Foreman has much better handspeed, mainly due to the fact that he doesn't put much on his punches to increase his speed. Vargas on the other hand had the tendancy to load up when in a war, which really was to his detriment defensively and also handspeed.

And for the small insult directed my way, yes son I was watching boxing back then, as a matter of fact I've been watching the sport since the early '80's.

 

Vargas is heavily underrated nowadays because of his losses. But look at who he lost to. Seeing as how neither a prime Trinidad, DLH, or Mosley is currently on the seen at that weight a prime Vargas, the one who beat Quartey, Wright, and Castillejo, would most likely be the man at the division today if he were around, and yes, he'd be too much for Manny. I think Manny hit the ceiling at 147.

 

Wasnt trying to insult you just sounded like that was the case based on the statement before. Tends to be alot of new boxing fans here on ESB that make statements about guys they never really saw. I think Vargas handspeed is underrated, he through excellent combos with good speed, infact that is what made him such an a standout amatuer. He does load up more than Foreman but he flashed those hands pretty quick when he wanted. Ask Ross Thompson who was a pretty decent fighter and pretty much dismissed Vargas as being to slow before their fight. After the fight Thompson retracted and said that Vargas hands were very fast and that he underestimated his speed.
By the way im not your son and ive been watching since the 70s.

 

Vargas by KO.

Too big,too strong,too fast,high volume puncher with good power.

At 154 I think he could take what Pacquiao would land.

 

Prime Vargas was fast and too big for Pac ... but I would count it a 50/50 fight ...

I'd give Vargas the nod but wouldn't be surprised if Pac won !

 

sorry dude about the son comment. I just took a little shot because I thought you had done the same to me. Thinking about it you are right that there are a lot of posters on this site that have only been watching boxing for a couple of years, and only big fights at that. I would also seem to be that kind of poster considering I'm defending Pacman. Most Pac fans seem to be only that, and not really boxing fans.

In reality, my post was more concerned with Foreman being underrated and Vargas being somewhat overrated. Not that I would favor Foreman in a head to head matchup with Vargas. I do think that Foreman does present problems for certain types of high level fighters currently at 154. Most everyone else seems to want to just dismiss him, and I think he appears to be a classy, cute, slickster of the old school fundamental type.

 

:think there would be no catchweight here and prime vargas did have tito in serious, serious trouble and a hair of upsetting the PR great up until tito unleashed those strength draining nut******* bombs below the belt to save himself. el feroz at that point before folding to tito was very good at every thing, but not great, but still fought like a highly skilled, well schooled fighter for his age and never reckless.

i think pac being the smaller guy at 154 would lose some speed and power. lets not forget pac as great as he is could not ko the larger, but weak version of oscar, he is not going to ko a prime, well schooled fernando. drop fernando and win rounds, yes, but fernando had a good enough jab, right hand, and a very sneaky short left hook that many a fighter would never see coming.

i think manny reaches his fighting weight limit at 147 to be fair and fernando in his prime is not a walk in the park for any 154lber of any era and fell just a hair of being great. had he had a rematch with winky and tito with wins over them he would of had a higher standing for sure. i think fernando at his best might give manny a close, close fight, but i think pac by a bloody and close split decision.

pacman vs. winky that would of been interesting

 

Pac said formane is too big...vargas was a pretty big and strong lmw...vargas ko

 

Vargas never had Tito in "serious serious trouble" at all in the fight..-_-..maybe hurt and stunned him a little bit,but he was never wobbly and holding on for dear life and out of it like Vargas was in the early and late rounds of the fight