Prime For Prime Cleveland Williams vs Brian London

Brian who? :noclue

 

Heres a guide.Williams was beating the granny out of Richardson until the Welshman saved himself by fouling out ,sticking the nut on Williams despite several warnings. Richardson stopped London.

Williams would ko the lantern jawed London.

 

Now Richardson v London was something else!!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCr519cSQvw

 

How is that a guide? Richardson fouled both guys.

London and Williams were around the same age. Both rated around the same time, in the great scheme of things neither was going to be champion and their records bare this out. Both fared equally as bad against a prime Ali.

Big journeyman heavyweight Howie Turner fought both London and Williams in back to back fights. And both scored identical results over Turner in winning on points. Turner died in 1980, but I wonder if he could tell who was best?

The only guys who ever embarrassed London was Ali and a prime Machen. Even late in his career London beat Folley and drew with Henry Clark around the time Williams was getting knocked out by Mac Foster and Al Jones.

Brian wiped the floor with Rischer much better than Williams did. He almost knocked out Ingo and Ingo wiped the floor with a guy who drew with Williams. I don't think they are so far apart. Neither was at reliable when evenly matched.

I need to know what ACTUAL WIN of Cleveland big cat Williams can actually promote the absolute concrete knock out win over London for Williams?

On paper it is a 50-50 match up. Maybe Williams wins, maybe not.

 

Richardson beat London, Williams handled Richardson easily flooring him before the ex Rugby player decided he didn't want any more and fouled out.
Turner was never stopped,all his losses were by decision.
Patterson embarrassed London, and I'm sure he was embarrassed when Henry Cooper ko'd him in 1 round!
Williams ko'd Rischer in 3 round , London in 1 rd, so what?
.To show how absolutely ridiculous your comparison is Rischer beat Cooper, Cooper beat London 3 times out of 3 once in a round. Johannson was comfortably in front against London until the closing moments, you talk about it as if London won!
You think London ,Richardson and the others were on a par with Williams ,that's your prerogative, I think you're mistaken, and I haven't seen anyone agree with you yet.

 

Williams via KO.

 

Where is the proof that Williams did knock out winning rated fighters on the up? Nobody has agreed to that either.

Williams was an exciting character. But get over it. He was not a world beater.

Tami Mauriello rocked Joe Louis in a short fight before losing. Same thing happened when Williams rocked Liston. Exciting moment, but it was a short fight. Liston took care of business.

Nobody rates Mauriello as a "would be world beater" off the back of him shaking Joe Louis momentarily do they? Why Williams?

 

At no point have I said he was a world beater I say he was better than you those you think are on a par with him.And now I'm bored rigid by you comparing their results and saying daft things like because London stopped Rischer in 1 round and Williams took 3 they are on a par.My revised last post shows the absurdity of that claim. Mauriello was world rated in two divisions.You are setting up counter arguments to arguments that have not been posed , and not for the first time.:hi:

 

What out of all that proves concrete evidence that Williams would knock out a winning "at the time" rated contender?

The way I see it is we can look back on a particular era and gauge the worth of a particular individual on how his career actually panned out.

At any one time there is a champion then bellow him there is often a bunch of contenders that look okay when they navigate around each other but often go 50-50 at best when matched among other contenders. It's only the champions that stand out and they're usually outstanding contenders first. Liston was a prime example of an outstanding contender becoming champion.

In the era we are talking about folley, Machen and Terrell were on the whole no better than each other when each at their best. Each of them dropped decisions and had close fights against a number of others whilst rated. Even if you intend to group Williams among them it's not even a short list of guys who beat machen and Folley whilst they remained rated. And whilst rated Williams went 0-1 with Terrell. Let's not forget each of Terrell, Folley and Machen were always a level bellow Liston, Ali, Patterson and Johansson anyway.

Where London figures is in all of this should not be so high obviously. But I don't know what Williams ever did to rate higher.

 

Much as I am sceptical of Williams, he would be far too much for London.

 

Quite possibly. London was not so reliable either was he? But who can say for sure? They both fought on the same circuit. Howie Turner, Muhammad Ali, Richardson, Eddie Machen and Roger Rischer fought both London and Williams. It's not like those results point that clearly to one or the other is it?

Nino Valdes was the closest thing to Williams that London fought and Brian did okay watching the film. It was only an unfortunate cut (proberbly from buts) that caused that stoppage. It was far from convincing since it was Nino who retired after that fight.

What I want to know is which winning performance from Williams proves he was of a clear level above London in the great scheme of things. I see no greater impact on history from Williams than London had. Did Williams make any more of an impression?

 

The fact that the fighters and trainers of the period, saw Williams as a dreadnought, and London as a second ratter, should factor into your ****ysis.

I honestly think that Liston respected Williams a lot more than Patterson or Johansen!

 

That could be because Liston had his eyes on the prize and Ingo and Patt represented what he wanted where as he saw Williams the way he saw himself, as a hungry dude on the outside looking in. A lot of Listons regard for the champions could have more to do with how Sonny must have been so outraged that their rematch clause took three years to complete.

As an aside, I've often wondered what Liston thought of Bert Whitehurst. He did much better against Sonny than Williams ever did!

 

Yes I am aware of this. But what one of the Big Cat's wins caused this reputation?