Prime For Prime Cleveland Williams vs Brian London

I find them all very similar to be honest.

They are all big punchers, who devastated their opposition in impressive fashion, but ran into trouble when they came up against somebody able to hold a place in the current Ring top ten.

 

Which rated heavyweights did ****ey beat?

Lyle beat what? 2 rated heavyweights.

Tua ? Fres Oquendo who else?

Godfrey? Uzcudun and Maloney.

Williams was on the cusp of a title chance when he was shot ,that kind of limited his resume.

 

The "safe" pick here is for Williams to KO London - but if the Big Cat wasn't able to simply overpower his man, it wouldn't at all surprise me if London were able to hustle and maul his way to a close, ugly decision. Williams had a lot of vulnerabilities outside of his power, and London has shown that he can, on occasion, upset the applecart.

 

London was what we in the UK call a good ,"on top fighter", if he fancied the job he could spring a surprise on better men, but if he didn't he could be very underwhelming.

 

I am sure Norton was rated when ****ey beat him because Norton beat Tex Cobb who was #9 with the WBC at the time. Granted Norton was old by then but I can't see anything so good on Williams win list to be honest can you?

 

Norton was nearly 38 years old and had won 2 of his last 5 fights.

 

And because Norton was coming off a win over 17-0 #9 rated WBC contender Tex Cobb (who beat Shavers) that still made 38 year old kenny a justified rated fighter when C00ney knocked him out. It's not great but it is still better than anything Williams recorded over a relevent contender. This is what makes the big Cat so unique. His record is absent of anything touching this.

 

I believe Miteff and Daniels were both rated.

 

Precisely, but Williams could not knock out Daniels in 20 rounds. Other contenders did.

Miteff had a worse record than Norton did against C00ney. Williams was the eighth defeat Mittef endured in the previous two years, it is difficult to imagine why Alex was still rated but he was. As well as being 3-3 in his last 6 Miteff was six weeks away from recovering from a draining points loss to chuvalo. It was three years since mitteff beat a good opponent.

Norton had beat Cobb in his last fight.

 

I don't see the relevance of whether he kod Daniels or not. I've already showed results against common opponents are totally misleading
Norton was 6 months away from retirement.

 

The relevance is that with no signature wins at all this is the closest Big Cat Williams has to it, two fights with a guy he could not knockout and another win over a fringe guy three years past a decent win himself. That's the relevance, even accepting results against common opponents can be misleading. There still must be substance within an actual win for any fighter to be afforded so much celebrated reputation -despite what fighters and trainers of the time say about them.

The only misleading thing is to paint Williams so many leagues above Brian London who beat guys like Radmacher, Folley, Pastrano, Erskine and also fought so many guys that Williams fought like Ali, Rischer, Howie Turner and Young Jack Johnson.

On the face of it Williams was an intresting guy. Exciting win or lose. But unique among other contenders is his lack of a single credible win at World class level. No other celebrated heavyweight can touch this. Not Lyle, nor c00ney or Tua. It's remarkable.

 

No other leading heavyweight got shot just as he was on the threshhold of a title shot.
I'd give Williams a realistic shot against a prime Norton.

 

Williams had been found out at top level even when he was on this so called "threshhold". Where exactly was big Cat Williams going beyond this point? Nobody was sold on Terrell and he outpointed Williams. Ali was champion.

The draw with Machen was right after veteran lightheavyweight Harold Johnson had outpointed gate keeper Machen and just after drawing with big Cat machen had a mental breakdown. Even in his prime machen had been found out by Johansson and Liston. In all likelihood this was not Machen at his best. This threshold level of Williams was after all a level bellow the guy who wasn't quite good enough anyway. Let's not forget Liston did put a pre world rated version of Williams into perspective before Ali did likewise later on after this threshold shooting.

There's not enough substance to base that claim on is there? Norton in his prime beat Muhammad Ali!

Yes some big punchers within the elite knocked Norton out but for Williams to join that group he needs to show proven power at top level too doesn't he?

Norton knocked out Duane Bobick and gave Jerry Quarry a bad beating its not like every puncher walked through him.

There is a more credible case that Williams fares no better than Bobick against Norton than there is in Norton faring so well as Billy Daniels against Williams. ...Bobick could even have better wins than Williams!

 

Who in the hell would want to see this fight? Not me!

 

Truth is, On paper it's a good fight.