Prime Frazier v Marciano's Challengers?

People don't understand that hitting hard and best puncher are two different things.

Hard hitting only counts if you can land on a good class opposition. All that counts is who the best puncher is. The best puncher is the one who knocks the best guy out and it has more to do with landing what the other guy can't see which is why the enormous size of Carnera did not work for him in that department. Everybody saw it coming with primo.

What do you mean "Ali hit harder than Bob Foster". Foster landed hard enough to pole axe men of his own class but when he moved up a division the weight of his opponent told on him, it stole his leverage etc so naturally his power was restricted without punchers privilege of holding ring centre. What you don't realise is losing ring centre for a lot of boxers can effectively take their power away.

Ali hit guys with a punch they did not see. He only really fought at World level so he did not score the kinds of knockdown others appear to but he was a good puncher. As foster found out. That Ali knocked Foster down a few times dosnt mean Foster was an inferior puncher to him.

 

Stop Press!

McVey makes a pro-Marciano comment!

 

It does not need to be comparable, just functional. Frazier sparked out Ellis pretty good. Ellis at that time was on top of the world. That's world class knock out punching, I don't think it really matters which of two world class puncher hits harder if both can do the job. 10 second concussion is all that is required. It's like arguing over what pair of shoes squashes the ant better.

 

All this history is a bunch of words with no sense. A harder puncher is a harder puncher,period. i am not talking about who was more effective etc...just who did hit harder. And h2h ali did hit harder tan foster that was just a lhw, the size matters, maybe you think that Roberto duran hits harder than jimmy ellis

 

Joe stops them all within eight rounds or so ..

 

Footage speaks for itself. That's the beautiful thing about it.

His KO on Sharkey was huge.

It speaks volumes louder than second hand fables about what someones wife said.

 

That's kind of misleading considering that Frazier: stopped virtually all of those opponents (other than Foreman and Ali); fought Ali and Foreman 5 times in that span; fought some of those fights when he was indisputably shot and even visually impaired; and fought bigger men than Marciano, who only fought a handful or so of 200-lbers.

 

:thumbsup

 

I don't think the concept of harder punching exists the way you understand it. A man can either knock out a world class fighter or he can't. The best punchers do.

There are different types of punchers. Hard punchers and best punchers. A hard puncher is only a hard puncher when he can hold centre ring. This power is conditional. It is hard and devastating but if his leveraging is smothered he loses this power. Hence power not going up through the weight. He's still a great puncher.

The best puncher is the guy who is so sharp he lands accurately when the opposition don't see it coming. In theory, this power is unconditional. The snag is big or small, better levels of fighter have better levels of punch anticipation. So however hard a punch is the receiver having time to brace himself will determine its effect.

So in answer to your question Duran was a better puncher than Ellis. Foster was a better puncher than Ali against men his own size but against bigger foes Foster and Duran find their leverage was cancelled out. Hard doesn't come into it.

All anyone has to do is hit hard enough to produce a knock out. Hitting harder than that is just arguing over what pair of shoes squashes insects harder.

Big men are stronger, harder to move and restricting to fight against. but a knockout is a knockout.

 

I agree with everything you said. Foster did hit harder han alI AGAINST MEN OF HIS OWN SIZE.BUT NOT AGAINST BIGGER MEN.