Prime GGG vs Sugar Ray Leonard (Hagler fight) MW

That can refer to either

 

Yeah, not in the context of the big post which I originally replied to, mate. This one, which is clearly about greatness, not H2H.

 

I love how causal boxing fans turn into experts lol.

1. In the record books Jr.middleweight and Middleweight are two DIFFERENT weight classes.
End of story.
2.Knee issue or not his knee was completely blown and it impacted the fight. Acting like that HUGE FACTOR had no impact on that fight is telling.
3. I'm so sure that Cotto was so close to his prime that what a year latter he retired after getting beat up by an ordinary fighter. Sure screams prime to me.
4. Jacobs was never much and again the best boxer he ever met in the ring KNOCKED him out.
The fact that you would need to fight Mora not once but twice is pretty bad.
5. Cyclone Hart, Sugar Ray Seales, you left off for some reason. And out of two of Hagler defeats one was considered a straight up home town decision the other fair.
Anyone that attempts to down play Hagler going into Philly and facing that kind of competition that was avoided by many is insane. There was a reason why they were avoided.

Tell you what name 5 boxers of the caliber that GGG faced BEFORE he won the title that in your opinion are of the caliber of Monroe, Seales, Hart, Briscoe, and Watts. Name 5 opponents you think were just as good as those fighters.

 

First, let’s get your argument straight. You originally said Hagler’s competition was better than GGG himself—meaning the fighters he faced were better than Golovkin as a fighter. But now you’re shifting to a different point about overall resumes. Which is it? Because if we actually compare opponents, GGG fought an elite-level Canelo twice, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko, and a dangerous puncher in Lemieux. You’re acting like Hagler went through some murderers’ row that dwarfs Golovkin’s record when in reality, he had a solid resume but wasn’t fighting vastly superior competition. And saying Pirog was the best opponent Jacobs ever fought while ignoring Canelo and Golovkin, two certified all-time greats, is just nonsense. If you’re going to argue that Hagler’s opponents were better than Golovkin himself, then back it up with something concrete instead of shifting the argument whenever it suits you.

 

At MW, GGG all day long

 

No you don't get off that easy - list the FIVE opponents GGG faced before he was champion that you think compare in anyway to Watts,Hart,Briscoe, Seales, and Monroe. Its that simple either you do it or you don't.
I liked Lemieux and he was a good puncher but he was such a disappointment almost every time he stepped up and he got brutally exposed a couple of times.
Hagler had to wait years to get a title shot and nobody really wanted to fight him hence why he had to literally fight in his opponents backwards almost all the time.
I mean Hagler had to face an unbeaten gold medalist fighter in his 2nd year as a pro.
Hagler fought 19 times in his first TWO years as a pro. GGG took FOUR years to even get to 19 fights.
Hagler didn't have a promotional team backing him he had to fight basically all comers. GGG had the backing of Universm which at that time was a pretty powerful promotional company especially in Europe.

 

Are you arguing that Hagler himself is better than GGG, that his pre-title competition was better, or that he had a harder road? Because every time I counter one point, you switch to another. If you want an honest discussion, stick to a single argument. If your argument was solid, you wouldn’t need to keep reshaping it every time I respond.

 

GGG points as it is his fight to lose. ...
I think some got it backwards here tbh. You cant compare SRL to Canelo. Completely diffrent style fighters. Canelo is a lot bigger and stronger than SRL at that weight. It was SRL who was losing the second half of the fight to Hagler because Marvin was starting to land the bigger shots and imposing his strength on Ray. I had GGG outpointing Canelo in both fights. SRL aint wearing down GGG, GGG is the bigger stronger fighter here .. This is GGGs fight to lose imo as Ray would need to use his lateral movement and handspeed to oupoint and stay away from GGG. Ray had one fight at MW .. he's definately not some H2H nightmare at that weight as some are pertraying him to be.

 

TBH, this was the only response really needed for the thread.

 

Here's a good one

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I think that this is a valid argument even if the two fighters are fighting at the same weight class. But they are not. Golovkin is fighting a weight class UP from what Leonard is, given the versions. We'd need a 168 version of Leonard for this to be fair.

 

Too bad it isn't in the PRO. But ok I will give you that one. Now name 4 more.

 

Either name then or don't. Hagler is in a completely different class then GGG in almost everything.

 

I'm not playing your bad-faith game where you shift the goalposts every time you're backed into a corner. You still haven't answered why you initially implied Hagler’s competition was better than GGG as a fighter and then backpedaled into just pre-title opponents. Answer that first, and then I'll engage with your latest demand. Until then, we can agree to move on because I’m not wasting time entertaining a rigged debate where you keep changing the rules to suit your argument.

 

Well, yeah. Golovkin was in the amateurs for a long long time. The plus is that he was seasoned by the time he hit the pros. The minus is that he had most of his hardest fights at an age when Hagler was falling to pieces or long since retired. Golovkin's career is largely the career of an OLD boxer. People forget this.

Golovkin's early career was also plagued by an ineffective management team that could not get him the fights that he wanted, which is why he ended up coming to the US.

Hagler had big stones to venture into the lion's den when he was a relative newbie ... however the fighters that gave him hassles, did so precisely because they were solid and he was somewhat green, not because they were amazing. If you dig around in Golovkin's amateur days you will find names like Dirrell, Bute, Gaydarbek, Korobov and Andy Lee any of whom are at least the equal of the "philly crowd".