Prime H2H Tyson vs. Lewis

I believe Tyson was psychologically strong enough around the time he unified the titles.
I also think if Tyson had beaten Holyfield, Lewis and or Bowe in the early 90's before retiring, a strong case could be made for him being the greatest heavyweight ever.

 

You have a problem out of the gate. What you believe is "common misinformation" ain't necessarily so. To wit: Tyson did have stamina problems. He himself acknowledges this. To wit: Tyson had heart, but it was about three sizes smaller than guys like Marciano, Holyfield, and Ali. He was exceedingly durable, but that is arguably different. Lewis, by the same token, was not as durable as Tyson. His chin was not glass, but it could break nonetheless. And it broke in his prime -twice.

These are factors that have to be considered.

That being said, Tyson will have to get to Lewis and either stop him (which is not out of the question) or will have to do enough damage to take over. Tyson becomes more and more ordinary after about 6 rounds and if Lewis is not horizontal or gun shy to the point that Tyson can take a decision, then Tyson is in trouble. Lots of trouble.

What's more likely?

1988 Tyson was a beast, and technically more disciplined than Lewis at his best. If Lewis comes out bombing, Tyson will connect and will hurt him. If Lewis can force Tyson to the backfoot, then he may have more of a chance, but I don't think he would be as effective as Holyfield here. Lewis has two speeds -he either bombs and leaves windows open because he gets sloppy, or he fights defensivly and lays off behind the jab. That would allow Tyson to use forward motion and that isn't good.
I lean uncertainly toward Tyson by KO in round 5 or earlier.

 

Never heard Tyson acknowledge this in fact he used to brag he preferred 15 round fights when he was younger and champion.

The same could be said about his opponents who were under a tremendous amount of fire and pressure in the first half of the fight. Noone beat up Tyson in the second half of a fight in the 80's. Maybe they could find an easier way to survive but they still lost one sided.
Tyson showed pretty good durability in:
Thomas KO7
Biggs KO7
Ribalta kO10
Ruddock KO7
Ruddock UD12
Douglas beat Tyson from round 1 to the finish and Tyson still managed to drop Douglas in the 8th or 9th. Holyfield, I cant really classify that fight as against the same Tyson as his first title run, but agree Holy would have always had more ability to fight the type of fight that he did against a 96 version of Tyson than Lewis ever could.

 

It's always one of those toughs fights to say.

I can see Lewis out-boxing and frustrating Tyson. Holding, and jabbing from a distance.

I can also see Tyson catching Lewis.

What makes it hard is Lewis is this ATG that we are suppose to think so much of. You know, he's just a beast H2H Heavyweight. But the guy got starked twice by second teir contenders in McCall and Rahman. This can not be ignored, as it hasn't happened to many other great Heavyweights (Wlad it happened too, as well).

At the same time, this were obviously in some part just bad luck. Can Lewis out-box and not get caught and flurried on? Who knows... what I do know is I think is that either bet isn't neccessarily the safer or better bet/pick. If I have to, I favor Tyson. I just think Tyson would be overwhelming and Lewis gets caught. The difference between this matchup over Ali vs Tyson is I think Ali can survive an onslaught. I think he's a better clincher, and I think he had more wits/ring IQ and intangibles. Also his footwork, speed, and reflexes can get him away from most everything. Lewis has the firepower, but not the same attributes to avoid some of Tyson's shot. Tyson would probably break through and force a mid-fight TKO.

The stamina argument is a bit overplayed for this instance because I don't think Lewis is really convincingly more conditioned, or can even fight at a higher pace. In fact, almost to the contrary. Either way, it won't matter in this one because he ain't facing a guy with Frazier/Ali/Marciano in stamina.

 

Watch the Tyson documentary. He says it there.

Excellent point, and I happen to agree.

He was beaten up in the 80s because his skills were intact because Rooney was in the camp. I'm sure you'd agree with that. Tyson was also a front runner in all of those except for Douglas and Holyfield, both of whom beat him. I consider Tyson to be a front-runner, though more so after the source of his confidence -the last real link to his apprenticeship got chased out by the diabolical Don King.

By the way, Lennox was more sure of himself, bigger, and more powerful than all of the above. He's unlikely to pull a Bonecrusher Smith.

 

Tyson was a fast starter, I dont know about classifying him as a front runner. I would call a guy like Shannon Briggs a frontrunner. Of course his activity is going to slow as the fight progresses as all fighters do. Again personally I dont see Holyfield and Douglas exposing anything on Tyson.
I dont believe Tyson would be pushed around in the late 80's like he was against Holyfield.
I also think your right Lewis wouldnt go into a shell he would try and fight, and get knocked out.

 

By front runner, I mean he was not prone to come back from behind... he was fine if he was the boss, but if not, he didn't seem to have the reservoir that the greater greats had.

 

I gotcha, but were going to have to disagree on this.
I think Tyson showed plenty of mental fortitude when he was right.
All his lack of confidence was highly documented when he was an amatuer, but he didnt regress back to that type of fighter until later in his career when he realistically wasnt prepared mentally and physically.
I think Douglas just whipped his ass, simple as that. Tyson was partying and not taking things serious and got a butt kicking because of it, but I dont think that fight showed Tysons lack of grit, he had to be knocked out to be stopped. You dont win 36 fights and 10 title fights without having some sort of mental toughness.
Again I cant realistically classify the Tyson that faced Holyfield as the same fighting machine of the late 80's, and I think a lot of what Tyson accomplished in the 80's is overshadowed by his half ass post prison comeback where he cried, quit and bit like a spoiled little kid.

 

Of course, he had "some sort of mental toughness," but nothing like some think. Tyson was emotionally immature and this did not help him have the longevity or come-from-behind determination that stronger men have in this hyper-masculine sport. His powers were extraordinary, but inside was not.

And The problem isn't just Douglas. It's his implosion against Holyfield II, his surrender against Williams, illegal tactics against Saverese and McBride and many other glimpses into who he is. These happened late in his career but let's be straight here, Tyson was no Marciano in there. When it came to heart, he was no where near even Mickey Ward.

 

Thats why I put this in my post, because Tyson didnt return to boxing for the same reasons he entered it.

Again I cant realistically classify the Tyson that faced Holyfield as the same fighting machine of the late 80's, and I think a lot of what Tyson accomplished in the 80's is overshadowed by his half ass post prison comeback where he cried, quit and bit like a spoiled little kid.

 

Stalwart men do not become cry-babies in their 30s. Would you agree that there are real questions about Tyson's character in the ring?

I don't want to judge the man, but the fighter's intangibles must be critically judged if we are to call him great.

 

I'm a little hazy where Lennox is Prime but I was watching Mercer - Lewis other night which I know is early on in his career but thought how badly Tyson would of battered him back then.

Easy to tag on the inside, bad balance, where mercer and him were leaning on each other tired, Mike would have been in fine condition to keep battling at that pace.

 

I would say there was questions about Tyson's character, but I think there was the proper reinforcement in place in the corner to keep him right. Just like a fighter improves and his natural talents flourish with a better trainer, Tyson was able to keep his shortcomings in check in the same manner.

 

I've thought about this fight for years and go back and forth as to who I think would win, but at the end of the day I'd pick Lewis. The main reason is not that Tyson was shot when they fought, he clearly was. But the strategy that Lewis used, ie not backing down, leaning on him, using his size and bullying the bully, would have been the perfect strategy to beat Tyson either by KO or decision. (I'd give this a 45-55% chance)

That said, the other scenario is that Tyson simply steamrolls over Lewis and catches him with something early. (I'd give this about a 35-40% chance)

But if it's a prolonged fight, I'd pick the strategy Lewis used when they fought, over the option of Tyson winning a decision.