You've seen a couple of his Lightweight fights (not even the De Jesus rematches), his poor above the weight showings at Welterweight (aside from his brilliant Palomino and Leonard performances), and a bunch of latter career showings. The Palomino and Leonard fights alone should've proven his skill. He hardly needed to bully the larger, harder hitting Palomino. Duran had one of the best mixes of offense and defense of any fighter ever. Maybe you need to rewatch that Palomino fight. Of course anyone who fights as aggressively and in close quarters as he is going to take his fair share of shots, but even then his ratio of being hit clean to not was clearly in the latter's favor. He knew how to slip and counter with the best of them in close. THE best of them, actually.
Maybe you just need to rewatch some of those performances, Addie. Might just be a case of needing a little time to adapt to his style. In fact when I first started following I wasn't as initially enthralled with Duran as I became. Watch those De Jesus rematches, watch him against Guts Suzuki, against Hector Thompson (who he physically couldn't bully), Emiliano Villa, etc. I'm sure you'll come 'round.
Yeah, he looked good against Palomino. Exactly how motivated Palomino was at that point of his career though is up for debate. Okay, Duran outboxed a faded Palomino, Hagler through periods, Barkley, and perhaps he boxed well in some other fights I haven't gotten around to watching yet. But this is a guy who is lauded for his defensive ability, his boxing ability, and yet he could do nothing with Wilfred Benitez. Nothing. He was made to look ordinary against painfully ordinary opposition in Bizzarro & Gonzalez. It would actually make for a fairly lengthy list if we were to go through all of Duran's subpar performances through his career. I'm not arguing the man was great. Duran was great and worthy of his standing among the very best of all time, but perhaps more so for his ability to impose his will on fighters and get the better of them on the inside rather than being a master boxer or for any defensive wizardry. I'll watch Duran-De Jesus II now, I think. I'll report back...probably eating my words. :yep
I agree with you on what you say about Duran.. I just disagree with the Henry was the epitome of offense.. or I think you said.. had the best offensive skils of almost any fighter... To me.. to make that kinda claim.. they kinda gotta have all the tools in the garage... Armstrong to me.. didn't. Nothing more nothing less buddy.
Yeah. I parsed my words incorrectly. Maybe Armstrong was the most perfect swarmer ever, which is more what I meant.
It always amazies me how good Armstrong's defense is. It's really underrated. He either slips punches or puts his head right on his foe's shoulder in a poistion where no shot can land.
He gets credit for being extremely difficult to hit while imposing his will. No one calls him a defensive fighter or an outboxer or anything. Just a highly skilled, fairly versatile swarmer/slugger in his prime. The point is that he goes to war and still manages to avoid the vast majority of return fire. His defense on the fly, on the inside, in heated exchanges is what is so damned impressive. He gets dropped early by a sweet left hook in DeJesus II but looks a monster otherwise. DeJesus III is maybe the most complete boxing performance on film.
Armstrong Rounds 1-4, then rounds 14 and 15, perhaps 1 round through 5-7 = 7 rounds Duran rounds 8-13! plus 2 in rounds 5-7 = 7rounds = 8 rounds Add in a knockdown for Duran. Should win by 1-2 points.
Well Bizzaro ran for his life. He was in there to survive. No that easy to look good against a guy in survival mode. As it was he hunted him down and brutally KOd him. Also if Palomino was faded in 1979 is it then fair to say that Duran was faded and no longer at his peak against the likes of Benitez and Hagler? His defense for a slugger/boxer was probably as good as you`ll ever see. Ray Leonard had legendary handspeed and yet Duran made him miss 4 out of every 5 punches he threw. He also was able to roll so well with shots to take the steam out of them. That was one of the greatest defensive performances of alltime regardless of division. Right in the pocket slipping and rolling on top of Leonard with either hand punching.
I've heard Duran being ranked among the great defensive fighters of all time by a number of posters on the Classic, Cobra. Otherwise, fair post.
When taken into account with his style, he was. And Balder, you said Armstrong would've edged 13-15, not just 14 and 15.
He was good at avoiding his opponent's artillery whilst on the inside, sure, but he wasn't a defensive genius or anything close. I don't think his mid-range game was all that either. I watched the second De Jesus fight. Yeah, very impressive. I mean, he was getting lit up early on but he then took over and was busting De Jesus up. Good performance. Great showing.
I actually prefer the second De Jesus fight, although I'm clearly in the minority. The third fight was probably his best all around performance, but I just loved the offensive arsenal he displayed in the second fight. Some of those combinations were ridiculous.
